The NO SHAKE ZONE - Looking forward to 2006

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    It's time for another installment of the NO SHAKE ZONE - Alcohol Racing Without the Shake! In this installment we take a look at what we feel needs to be done for next season.

    First off, we've had a very up and down year in alcohol racing. We've had a good year of side by side racing for the most part, but we've lost some of our own. Let's take a look at this year and what needs to be done for next year.

    TAD-

    NHRA made a move over the offseason to bring parity to the class. In a class where you pit apples against oranges, it is no easy task. Initially, it was to be 96% nitro. Ashley Force struggled with it in testing, and then there was the hydrometers that weren't calibrated right, and some teams were running less than 96% in pre season testing, so 98% was given to the afuelers this year. NHRA also stated they would keep a close eye on the situation, and if the A/Fuelers gained a performance advantage, they would hit the percentage.

    Art Gallant unloaded and ran his first 5.20 ever on his first run, a few runs later, Bill Reichert goes 5.19 and 5.21, Michael Gunderson goes 5.21. The big argument was wait until it gets hot. Enter Tom Conway and Steve Torrence. They essentially dominated every race they have attended this year during the 'hot' season in the southern part of the country, including nearly dominating in Joliet in the middle of July. On a national level, the car has been a 5.20 bracket car. In addition to Conway and Torrence, Randy Meyer's car has ran well at times in the heat, including winning some hot weather/altitude races in Div. 5, Aaron Olivarez has been on a tear of late, Gene Snow ran very strong in Indy, Art Gallant is dominating in Div. 1, and the list goes on. A/Fuelers are still running well when the weather gets hot.

    Indy was a very good barometer because we got to see the top performance blown car in the country - Hillary Will and the top performance A/Fuel car in the country at the same race. Torrence ran a 5.24, Will ran a 5.32.

    Everyone said wait and see, and we held off most of the year casting our judgement. The results are in: the A/Fuel car still has an advantage except when you combine heat with altitude.

    I know some will say you can't make apples and oranges equal, but in TAD, NHRA's gonna make fruit salad. So you have to look at it in a way to make the class as equal as possible. You also have to realize that certain combinations are going to have their advantages and disadvantages. I think at the perfect level of parity, you're going to see more A/Fuel cars at the top of the qualifying list than blown cars, and when it gets hot vice versa. Having two types of cars also creates fan interest, and NHRA is sitting on a gold mine they aren't promoting, and we'll touch base on that later in the column.

    I think for next year, the A/Fuel cars should be limited to 97%. What we should be aiming for is high .20's being the perfect runs in both blown and A/Fuel in good conditions. At very least they should go to 97.5, but I think 97% will not kill the A/Fuelers, and knock the edge off so to speak to make it to where we see Torrence and Will heads up in the low .30's at Indy, not 3 A/Fuelers in the .20s and no blown cars.

    In altitude situations like Vegas, I think the A/Fuelers should be given 99%. Take a look at the data, and tracks above a certain altitude should get 99% and if you feel like going to Denver, give them 100%.

    The above is based off real data this year by real competitors still racing. The 'what if' arguments are going to be made on both sides of the fence, and they are both too subjective to make any decisions off of.

    TAFC

    The difference in rules between IHRA and NHRA in the TAFC category is not helping the class' future. Getting the rules at least close would help build the class for the future. Also, the IHRA needs to go back to 16 car fields.

    First off, we need to kill the myth screw blowers kill parts. Bad tuneups and driver errors kill parts. You can tear up a roots motor with a bad tune-up or overrevving just the same as you can with a screw. There are years and years of data for a roots blower, so it's fairly easy to acquire a decent baseline for that setup. The PSI owner's manual provides a competitive fuel system for a PSI, and there are several tuners/fuel system guys out there that can start you with a good system that will run 5.80's and quicker without really leaning on it or revving it too hard.

    I think we need to look at a 3 to 5 year window for the IHRA class to transition to screw blowers. Let the screw blowers in at NHRA rules, add 75 lbs and take a page from Nascar, put a 3" wicker bill standard on a screw blower car. Very easy changes to make between venues, and would probably result in a tenth or so off a screw blower car. If 3" isn't enough, put 4".

    The IHRA has traditionally been a place for the lower buck racer to run. Don't get me wrong, there are some very competitive racers like Rob Atchison, Jim Sickles and Mark Thomas that run very hard, have decent budgets and would do well with the NHRA guys if they had screw blowers. So a budget racer runs a roots because he thinks he has a chance on the IHRA level. He doesn't run NHRA events because even though he has a limited budget, he's still a competitor and doesn't want to face a car with a blower advantage. So he doesn't go to NHRA races. There's also the stigma that he's automatically going to kill parts if he bolts that damn PSI on there.

    On the IHRA side, you don't see all of the stars of the category either. The past few years have been the Rob Atchison and Mark Thomas show over at IHRA, with Jim Sickles getting in the mix this year. Letting the screw blowers in would open the door for more big names to run IHRA. It also would be a big help to their western expansion goals. Now races at San Antonio and Edmonton have full fields.

    Lets look at this from a budget racers perspective. I realize if they let screw blowers in tomorrow, most of your budget racers won't be able to pick up the phone and order a new screw blower from PSI. However, you could sell your roots and fuel system and have a pretty good part of what you need to make the switch. It's going to take a new injector, reworking or replacing your fuel system, new bag, and probably a new gearset or two for your trans. Now before someone uses new prices to argue against this, lets remember we're talking about the budget racer here, and he or she don't always buy new. He finds a used one off this site, or somewhere, part here and there and can probably have a screw blower set up for around 10k. Depending on how good of a roots set up they had depends on how much of a chunk of that they can take away.

    A budget racer's goal is to run as good as he can for his budget. Some smarter racers run numbers that exceed their budget. Some racers have big budgets and don't run proportional numbers. You can run 5.90s and 5.80's pretty easy on parts with a roots. You can run 5.80's all day with a PSI and never hurt a part. A budget roots racer doesn't lean on his motor because he knows he don't have the money to fix it. He also doesn't over-rev it or put too much compression because he wants to max the life of his parts. He also probably realizes if he leaned on it, stepped on a few things in the combo, and revved it a little harder, he might run faster, but he just can't afford to. Take that same principle to a screw blower, put a fuel system on there from someone with screw blower experience, don't turn it higher than you can afford, don't lean on it, and you can run fat and happy 5.80s and 5.70s when you get it lined out.

    What we have to do here is make a decision that not only does good right now, but good in the future. If we introduce the screw blower into IHRA, it creates more venues for a guy with a TAFC to race. I think that will increase car counts in both sanctioning bodies. The growth that will create will trigger new teams to join. I think over the past few years, potential new teams have built Pro Mods instead because they feel more comfortable with their future. If TAFC shows growth, you'll see more new teams.

    When I've brought this up before, I've seen people say that most will just quit. I disagree. Maybe a few will. Maybe a few will take some time off to regroup. You already have to buy a new blower to stay competitive in IHRA as it is. If you don't have a new PSI Hi Helix on order or on your car, you're at a disadvantage already. Atch had his when he ran 5.76 in Norwalk a couple of weeks ago. You have to buy new parts and peices if you want to keep up. The cold reality of heads up racing is you either buy/make the parts to keep up, fall behind or quit.

    Combining the rules will lead to future growth in TAFC.

    Promotion

    What does any promoter of any sporting event love? One thing is a rivalry. It's college football season, so lets look at some of their rivalries. Do you think it would be crazy for promoters, TV and the media not to pump up Ohio State vs. Michigan, Texas vs. Texas A&M, Auburn vs. Alabama, Florida vs. Florida St., Florida vs. Georgia...

    There is a HUGE rivalry in the TAD ranks - A/Fuel vs. Blown. There's adamant fans of each. Why the hell do we have to be civil and play nice? Everyone that has a TAD needs to jump on this band wagon. There needs to be an informal agreement behind the scenes to pump this up. Both sides need to have a thick skin, and not get their feelings hurt if a blown racer talks smack, or vice versa. One of the things the TAD class brings to the table is the blown vs. nitro rivalry. We need to exploit it, and build interest in our class. Then we need to use that interest to get more sponsors. TV needs to pump it up. The announcers need to pump it up, and the racers need to do their part too.

    We as alcohol racers also need to explore the possibility of racing on Saturday, if we could get it promoted by NHRA. NHRA could bill Saturday as Pro Qualifying and Lucas Oil Top Alcohol Dragster and Funny Car final eliminations. We need to be the Busch League of NHRA. The Busch cars don't race on Sunday when the Nextel Cup cars are at the same track. They wouldn't get the same TV coverage they do if they did. Why not open it up to where we race on Saturday, and get same day TV? Or even better, LIVE.

    Promoting the alcohol class eliminations will build value to NHRA's Saturday show. Now you can see some elimination rounds and see some winner's crowned, along with Pro Qualifying. I think if Lucas could help underwrite the cost of getting Live or Sameday coverage either in it's own show or integrated with Pro coverage, it would earn a good return on their investment.

    When the Busch cars race somewhere the Cup cars aren't it's a BIG deal. We need to get back to making it a big deal when the alcohol cars come to towns where the nitro cars don't. Thats why we need to get away from the current broke divisional system and create a regional system, or just seperate the two series.

    There are prime targets for a regional series. Put TAD, TAFC and Pro Mod on a two day or night show. Run these events at safe tracks that are looking to bring in a crowd. Now you have a system that isn't broke. The track can bring in a crowd and the racers now have something that's marketable.

    Right now the divisional system is broke. Most tracks don't promote the alcohol cars. By getting a date, all they have to do is put up the money to get the date with NHRA, and its nearly guaranteed to make money off sportsman entry fees. They don't advertise, so not many people even know the alcohol cars are coming, so they're not looking for nor relying on a crowd to make money. So all the alcohol cars do is cut into the track's gate money. It's a money losing deal for the racers because who can win a race and not spend $2,500? The money sucks and sometimes you're running your car at unsafe tracks chasing points. Not to mention, if there aren't crowds, the event has little or no sponsorship value. NHRA can't make the tracks advertise.

    Some tracks do advertise. They see the value, and they bring a crowd. These are the tracks that would be prime targets for a regional TAD/TAFC/Pro Mod series.

    Being the star attraction at a packed house has tremendous marketing value. There's two types of sponsors. Companies that are legitamately looking for exposure, and the guy with a big company that wants to stroke his ego. It's hard to stroke that ego at a national event with an alcohol car because that guy can take his money and hand it to a nitro guy, and now he's getting he's hanging with the pro's on the pavement. Well, if you have a good regional series, you can get these types out there, and let them get their kick. If you're on a real business deal, same thing, that marketing rep or board member will have good things to say from an event like that.

    The first thing that comes to mind when racers are asked what can make things better and that's more money. Well, NHRA or IHRA aren't going to significantly increase purses anytime soon. So we need to make the class more marketable and create more interest. If we start creating more interest, we have a case for more money from NHRA.

    So in closing, let's close the gap in TAD, promote the rivalry, merge the rules in TAFC for future growth, and make our class more marketable. If we can do the above, 2006 should be one hell of a year!

    Ok, you're at the end of the column...time to give us your take. Let's keep it objective and see if we can't get some good discussion and ideas out of it.
     
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  2. Jonathan Johnson

    Jonathan Johnson New Member

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    Well, with all that being said I have to agree with pretty much all of it. Now, these TAFC/TAD/PM shows would work how, do we break the country up into to similar divisions but have only say 5, or do we do a regional type thing like the SPORTSNationals? I think the class still has value if looked at in the right context, and every sponsor is apprached with a tactical way to help their company's needs and wants. There is still interest from a corporate level, as Art Gallant had the Pep Boys Deal a few years back. Now I sure don't know the ends and oouts of the deal, hell Moe might have been his brother in law, but the fact is, that is leverage we all ahve as racer's to show that corporate America is and has put an interest. The nest thing is bringing in non-automotive companies..not an easy task, something I've been working on for a while. But the VIPSports marketing campaign is definitely something that was unique. Ashley brought in Hot Wheels, Barbie and the other Mattel brands, and don't say that was only bc she was a Force, they still had to see value folks. I, for sure, don't have the answers to all this, but like Will said it's gonna take some working together by the alcohol racing community as a whole to make anything happen. What do others think? Will, any cares or concerns on anything I said?
     
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  3. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Will I agree with you about promoting the TA/PM
    classes on the div. level and also running on Sat. at nationals. Will prob. be a hard sell with NHRA but it would improve things.
    As for the blown vs injected situation I think it a little early to start changing things now. Maybe at the end of the season NHRA will foot the bill for four blown cars and four injected cars to make test runs under the same conditions. They could reduce the weight of the blown cars 5 lbs at a time and if that didn't work take a 1/4 of a percent away from the injected cars until we had parity. Then of course Conway or Austin or someone equally talented would find another tenth
    somewhere. But then thats dragracing.
     
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  4. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    why does nhra need to have 4 blown cars and 4 a/fuelers test? yeah, that would be great in a perfect world, but we see more than 4 blown and a/fuel at every race in the same conditions. the standard a/fuel line is what if santos were still running, what if shields were still running blown....etc. when it comes to parity everyone wants the blown cars compared to santos/grimes and shields. but nobody on the a/fuel side this year wants to be compared to conway and torrence. hillary will has been the closest thing to running santos like numbers, and they had nearly a tenth on her most of the weekend.

    why wait a few years to fix what we know already is a problem? why wait until a goodwill center won't even take a blown car again to make a change? it's evident there's a tenth again, so hit the nitro just a little.

    the key to improving the class is getting car counts back up. keeping the blown car as a viable combination is vital to increasing the car counts.
     
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  5. mk

    mk New Member

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    You can't be serious leave it alone and let people recover from the yearly rule changes that has more to do with the car counts than anything else.
     
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  6. bulldog6

    bulldog6 A/Fuel #4

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    How would the blown guys like it if they were thrown a knuckleball year in and year out. We've seen DRAMATIC changes to the A/Fuel guys the past two years. First it was adding weight or reducing CI. Then it's the 98%. I know what NHRA has said, but why not campaign to make the blown guys faster? Instead of BEGGING to make the A/Fuel guys slower. Isn't that what drag racing is all about? Make the most power with what you've got! Well give the superchargers something they want and leave it at 98%. I love this class. And in reality, there is only 3 cars going faster "in the heat" than the blower cars. ??? Keep the Fuelers the same and let the blower guys step it up with something.
     
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  7. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    The BAD's would love to be thrown a knuckle ball (as you say). But in fact they have not had any technology to improve on to warrant a rule change. Give them something to go quicker and then ask that question.

    Dean

    [ September 12, 2005, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: The Zone ]
     
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  8. Dan Lynch

    Dan Lynch Member

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    The Blown guys/gals have been thrown that same knuckle ball the past year and what has it gotten them... Nothing, they are still a tenth behind...

    Let the Afuel cars spend a year or two or three a tenth behind the blown cars and see if you bitch and moan a little bit...
     
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  9. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    last year most blown racers wanted the C blower, but NHRA does not want to go down that route, or they would have last year.

    the blower is about the only thing that is going to get a tenth out of the blown cars. you can't take enough weight out of one. yeah, santos was at 1905 lbs with a 433 motor, but this would require new cars with lightweight rearends that tear up pretty quickly. i wouldn't advocate a change to the a/fuelers that required building a new 60-70k car no more than i would something that would require the blown cars.

    500 cid+ motor? without the additional od (125) or a new sfi spec that would allow them to turn a small motor 125 od might be worth something. keep in mind, the sfi specs on od were made back before the modern day msd rev limiter. the safety concern is how many rpms a smaller motor will turn w/o a rev limiter in the case of driveline failure. the od limits are designed to keep the blowers from turning higher than their structural limits in these situations. with new more reliable rev limiters, a case might be made for a higher sfi spec for the smaller cid motors. if this is realistic, it may be an avenue to look into.

    lets try to keep this clean. i haven't heard any fc guys comment...
     
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  10. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Will you might get some responce out of the F/C guys if you got back on your soap box and started advocating a rule change to let AF/FC's run with the blown guys like you have in the past. And buy the way I agree with you on that one to. Would certainly increase car counts and make it more exciting, you know blown vs injected fuel!
    What has changed with the blown cars that has now made it impossible to run 20's in ideal conditions? Not trying to be a smart ass here but would really like to know if there is a good reason? As for the comment on the one post about letting the A/F crowd see how it feels to run a tenth behind for a year I don't know where he's been but it must have not been around the TAD class in the past. Anyone out there knows how long it took to get the A/F cars competetive and then consistant enough to win. The only difference between then and now is I don't think I ever heard a fuel guy ask for anything but a place to race much less rule changes to slow the blown cars down. Guess that was then and this is now. All the A/F guys need now is for another 3-4 of the good alcohol cars to switch for next year and much of the thunder will deminish from the complaining few.
     
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  11. D. Palmer

    D. Palmer TA/FC

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    Maybe this is a stupid question Will but who is gonna buy all those roots blowers and assorted hardware that the IHRA guys will be selling when everybody is running Screws? Sounds great for the class but I don't think it can be done as reasonably as you think, but what do I know I'm just a new guy :confused:
     
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  12. bryanbrown

    bryanbrown Member

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    I believe Tractor pullers aren't allowed to run screws, so they could take a bunch of them. I do, however, see some lasting, negative effects. When Ihra makes the call, the market will instantly get flooded with quality used blowers. Therefore, companies like kobleco, littlefield, ssi, etc. will have trouble selling new one's at the price their worth, forcing them to sell new blowers at prices well below retail. The massive revenue loss will cause irreparable damage. They will do all they can to cut costs, but there is no hope. At some point, realizing that it's impossible to stay afloat, they will have no choice but to close their doors. Hard working men and women lose their jobs. They have no money, and the roots blower industry is completey washed out, meaning there are no jobs requiring their specialized skills. They will be doomed to a life on the streets, where they steal to survive and their children starve, and no one likes to see starving children.

    Damn Will. Starving children? I know you love this sport, but that's just heartless.

    bryan brown
     
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  13. BLOWN INCOME

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    LET'S GET REAL!!!SCREWS AND ROOTS CAN RUN TOGETHER,BUT THE 50 POUND WEIGHT IS'NT IN THE REAL WORLD!!GOOD RUNNING ROOTS 5.75 TO 5.82 RANGE, NOW A SCREW IS MID 5.5'S TO 5.6...ADD 200LBSTO THE SCREWS AND NOBODY HAS TO BUY NEW BLOWERS..YES I DO KNOW WE CAN'T PLEASE EVERBODY..REMEMBER I AM COMPARING THE TOP RUNNING CARS I EACH CLASS,KNOWNING THE MAJORITY IS RUNNUNG SLOWER..
     
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  14. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    santo,

    i think 75 lbs and a 3 to 4" wicker bill would knock a tenth or more off the screw blower cars.

    bob-
    a/fuel fc? if ihra would let screws in, i think it would be a good venue to introduce them.
     
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  15. Hokes Racing

    Hokes Racing Moderator

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    MONEY


    Lanny
     
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  16. alkyholic

    alkyholic Jr. Dragster

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    Will - the suggestion for the 75 lbs (not enough in my opinion) and wicker bill is interesting but it addresses the problem from one side of the fence assuming the nhra rules would remain the same. This may bring some of the screw cars to ihra but will not bring the roots cars to the nhra events. There have to be 30 to 40 roots cars that could be peppered in the nhra arena but some consession would have to be made the other way and I'm not sure what that could be. Restricting the screw cars to bring them closer to the roots guys would not go over very well I would think.

    I would be for the ihra to let the screw cars in only if the fields were brought back to 16 cars and the et's don't drop significantly more then the current rate. I'm all for going faster but on my budget it's going to take time just to get to the current level and if that level moves farther away quickly then the timeline would stretch exponentially.

    I wouldn't quit if it happened because I love doing this to much and I have the expectation of going fast (for me anyway) and just having some fun but at the same time without the idea of being able to be competitive for a very long time is a bit disheartening because I for one could not afford to update to a screw in the near future.
     
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  17. Manmana

    Manmana Guest

    There are a coupel of things that can be done to equilize the screw and roots cars
    1. go to the a or b screw blower:::eanttt to expensive
    2. require a preset pop off valve on all alky F/C cars, say at 38 lbs or what ever works for every one.:::::Yessss every one is equil in boost. the only addvantige,,,, the screw has is the mantinase factor.
     
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  18. bruce mullins

    bruce mullins Top Dragster

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    38lbs. are you kidding? i had roots blowers that made 43lbs. at the hit, and almost 50lbs. at the finish. the screw i have now , on veney 2.500 heads makes 37 at the hit and 44 at the finish. why don't you just make the nhra cars runwith a 10.71 and call that even. will has a real good idea. my old car weighed 2360 and it ran 5.80's all day shifting at 9400. sure it might have run faster but it came down to budget. i could go 80's and never touch the blower for 3 years. the wicker would kill the mph that the screw cars run so i think will's ideas are about the best i have heard in a long time for bringing an equality between the two sanctions.
     
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  19. Manmana

    Manmana Guest

    Bruce, when i was tuneing my brothers car with mikey ferro driving we went 5.66 with only 42 lb's, so whats your point, E/T is in the clutch, chassis,and fuel system and the CREW CHEIFS MIND, i said 38lbs OR WHAT EVER WORKS FOR EVERY ONE, and that i dont know. when the m/p/h is equiel then every one is equial a car can run 5.70 at 237 or 5.90 at 250 capish?

    [ September 14, 2005, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Manmana ]
     
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  20. Chuck Anderika

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    I don't know what world you guys live in but even if IHRA changed it's rules, what NHRA guy would come to more than one or two races? All the F/C in div 2 will come to Rockingham? Every northern IHRA event has a NHRA Nat. or div. against it. Virginia/Maple grove,Grand Bend/Chicago, Milan/Delmar&Denver, Toranto/columbus&Sonoma, MartinMI/Brainerd,Norwalk/Cecil County&Topeka, Epping/Englishtown,MIR Columbus& Dallas, Rock 2/Atco. Do you think that happens by chance? I tried to run the 8.90 class in both and couldn't do it. If anyone has to change their rules let NHRA change theirs. You pick your sanctioning body, build your car and go race.
    PS: If alch. racing is in such trouble Why where there about a hundred alch. cars trying to Qualify in NHRA & IHRA on the weekend of Aug 5 to 7. Maple Grove had more Alch. cars than spectators.
     
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