the difference between a hobby and a business

AA/FA 434, you mentioned switching to independent sanctions, tracks, etc... If you run a Fuel altered, isnt that what your doing anyway? How Many NHRA National event tracks you guys run? Fuel altered shows are becoming few and Far between anymore, and if your asking tracks to book shows without insurance, Good luck!

 

Oh Contrare,..Darren..AA/FA run at alot of National event tracks, at a variety of events
..Seattle, Sonoma, Pomona, Norwalk, Dallas, Phoenix, Englishtown, St.Louis, I am sure
there are more Nra tracks AA/FA have ran at just this year and this dont include IHRA tracks.

AND,..Fuel altereds ARE making a comeback, they are becoming more and more a PART
OF Nostalgia events across the country,.
Next on deck will be a increase of N/A Injected A and B funny cars.

Its funny ,.. other than Clint, and Randy,...No one else really chimes in on this stuff.
Most just tuck your tails and dont want to get involved and dont want to be labled by Glendora lurkers that read this board, well that is the big problem it shows hra that they have you right were they want you, bent over. Maybe Randy and Clint should be the speakers for the alky cars,.because I have never once ever seen my Div 6 represenative ever chime in and say hey, nhra wants to do, or has this to say,.......What has been done, has been done without the direct consent of any class out there,..in other words surprise !!!!
Its a shame when it is a rumor that gets the word spread around instead of hra having any one of there 7 division represenatives acknowledge any changes in rules or topics at hand,..when did this ever happen???? why was their a vote 4 years ago to have a represenitive from each division nominated..??? that would be the voice of the Sportsman..??? whats the point of it, if it is not going to be used like its sappose to be.
All of you drag racers are the voice for one, and the show for seconds,..and you dont have anything to say, nor do you have the capabilities to get anything done.
Nhra is the dictator, and they dictate what has led up to this drama, and bullshit rules to satisfy their insurance companies,....Why dont the NHRA with all their big non profit money get a sponsor to pay for the Insurance, better yet, why dont we find an insurance company to use insted of one that is in bed with the hra....
Its time for a change in the racers favor,.thats what this is about,..its about thousands after thousands of dollars of ass kissing rules that park most race cars,..well how about getting more involved with tracks that are not nhra sanctioned,..and or to get tracks to just dump the nhra, and the bullshit that it has become, and pick up on a new or prior sanctioning body.
No spell check is not on,.no I dont own a Top alky funny car, yes I am a nhra meber and licensed to race at nhra tracks,..but only till June 2011. I will not renew my mebership/lic.

who has the voice,..who has the balls to park their shit, who wants to go race at a NEW sanctioning body that is all about the racers, and only a little for their own pockets.

Hobby or Business is the title to this thread,..Kinda hard to decifier which racer you
are when the rules apply to everyone that runs a certain type of race car or class or ET
The rules are applying to any and all that run in the numbers, rergaurdless if you run once a year or 17 events a year,.

.NHRA has killed the Hobby Racer,..Its all about Business,..($$$$$$$$$$$$$)

 

Back then I put myself on the ballot and ran as someone to represent the alky contingent because I do think I am one of the more vocal people not afraid to say what I think and usually get a lot of agreement from my peers in what I say. I can cite specific examples. But someone else was elected to represent us. I think it was more of a popularity contest because the person elected rarely or never participated in conversations about the things that effect us the most before or after the elections. And for the life of me I don't even remember who got elected. I've never heard from them or heard they have been involved in getting the alky racers opinion or polling them (us) on anything. Since the election, as a licensed TA/FC driver and car owner I have not been contacted by the elected reps or heard a peep out of any of them. And trust me, there have been some things that should have been discussed via email or in person with all the racers in the last 4 years. I don't know...Maybe they gave it a try but were given a deaf ear in national hot rod land. I don't know.

Current example. Chute tethers. My opinion is that two cars had failures out of 300 or more. Both had mounting design flaws and in one case insufficient welds holding the tabs to the rear end housing. Mine is mounted like most. It's mount is part of the lower anti rotation area and is bolted to the rear end housing and to the frame like every other properly built car. Right now they can't get a strap to pass the test that will meet the pull spec they have called out, but we are supposed to have the set up on our cars by January. Rather than put a strap on the chutes, why don't they call out a standard chute mount design based on the designs that currently have no problems? Instead they make everyone put straps on that still don't pass the tests in an effort to dumb down the race cars to the lowest possible back yard mounting design denominator.

Brake handles. Unless I just fell out of an airplane or something I've never seen anyone bend a 1/4 thick brake handle beyond use. And we've wadded up a race car worse than many ever will in their lifetime. One guy may have used incorrect material or purposely pulled sideways on the handle and bent it once. So now 300+ race cars have to fix theirs based on one guys problem.

Great thing about racing Pomona is the 1-3 weeks notice we get on a lot of this stuff as they try to sort out what we really "need.". Reminds me of the 111th Congress that is about to get booted. They passed all kinds of legislation to fix stuff that wasn't wrong in the first place.

Rant off. Flame away.

RG

 

Hey, I wanted to prove a point with my new "meets the rules" somewhere over 5/16" aluminum brake handle, that the local foundry guy who is starving to death because everybody buys billet today, has offered to make for me out of slag and floor sweepings for $2.50 each that will pass the rule that is written "must be 5/16" aluminum"!
I had planned to sell'em for $10.00 ea. with a Chinese SFI tag.
If you keep talkin', you might spoil my plan.

Maybe this item needs to be included in R4 ! This is one of the most irresponsible rules that I've seen written since I was "invalidated" from SFI !!!!
I wrote Jim Collins, he replied and asked for more input, which I did, and never heard anything again! No wonder I just build Aussie cars now!

 

Rules

Randy G You are entirely right when have we as the reps. of the class ever been asked about the problems we have with the safety of the class? All we are told i s what we have to buy and start saving for it.Never once has a brake handle been brought to our attention yet a person or persons who never built or bent one tell us this is the way its going to be.Sure we all need to have someone watch over us but some one is getting a big ego doing it .I guess I just signed myself to the blacklist the best person to keep us safe is ourselves they know we are racers so therfore we have to be led we are not smart enough.This all starts to look like goverment one that don't know what one hand is doing other than getting your pocket. This might sound like a rant but the new year just started early .May everyone be safe and keep the green side up ------ Mike

 

I broke one once. In the pits. It was made out of Mag, and it broke at the lower pivot point.

We were warming up my T/F car at Pomona '97, I think, and Richard Catton was the crew chief at the time.

He was checking it on the high side, and told me to hold the brake. He noticed the wheels still turning, and yelled "Hold the fucking brake!" I threw the handle at him, and told him "You hold the fucking brake".

He looked at me with a totally stunned look.

We shut it off, and finished the service.

I went over to Dave Prominitz, and borrowed his, because he didn't qualify, so he wasn't using it.

We still laugh about it, but if would have happened an hour or so later, might have been different.

 

Right. The rule should be a spec'd aluminum 1/4 brake handle, not Rheel's 1/4 mag, or Joe's 1/4" slag and floor sweepings.

Someone in charge said "5/16" is thicker than 1/4" so that's the new rule." 5/16" of what? Again, we are seeing rules changes made to protect us from ourselves...as in the guy who would actually use slag and floor sweepings to make something like a brake handle when the rest of us would not. Why not require a 3/4" thick brake handle, or a two-by-four brake handle? The requirement is thicker, 'cause thicker is better, right? Junk is junk no matter how thick it is.

The point I'm making is, look at the stuff that failed and find out what they made it out of or how it was incorrectly mounted/welded and put the blame and responsibility on them. Don't crap on the other 300 racers with stuff that hasn't failed in 40-50 years of racing and expect that you are going to fix what isn't wrong with another rules change.

 

Wow!!!!

There is some seriously good stuff being brought out here. I think its important that in any organization there be some people who are willing to call a spade a shovel. Sometimes things are effed up and need to be changed but other times maybe some thought should be put into changes. Maybe we need:
safety boxes
shut off boxes
chute tethers
body coatings
brake line coverings
fitted seats
extra head padding
head and neck restraints
sfi certed roll bar padding
body burst panel tethers
carbon fiber brakes
.3125 thick brake handles
and then maybe we don't? This is a list of safety mandates in the last few years. Forgive me if I missed some.

I think the real base issue here is in the name "National Hot Rod Association" That name would leave one to believe it is an 'association'. I think all of us think we have some input into what happens with the association. Maybe if Glendora included the racer in some of the process we might feel like we actually are members? I like the idea that there are folks who have contrary opinions. Thats healthy everywhere except communist countries. Dave Germain or if there is a NHRA blacklist I am Vic Miller (just kidding-lol)

 

hobby

when I started this thread, I was heading to the tax question; hobby or business. kind of tongue in cheek qualification...I am surprised and glad to see the direction it has taken.Lots of good comments from people I like to hear from.Soooooo...I was out with friends yesterday and my buddy lost one of the lenses from his reading glasses...We were talking and the subject of 2011 rules came up and naturally he asked if NHRA had any new rules regarding his glasses coming apart..I said, lets see..we could insist you get titanium frames on those $20 glasses and then a safety tether.. in case the frame is manufactured incorrectly and somehow got a Chineese inspector 12 tag. But above all else you should have it tagged with a lojack pellet and painted bright red so a stranger will find it and wonder what kind of idiot would paint the lense bright red so he can't see through it..That should about take care of it..now send in $1000 to prove you did it! That makes you a drag racer!

 

I was audited by the IRS several years ago. I keep the books like any business should, maintain business accounts, and file properly. The one and only meeting at the IRS took about 45 minutes and I was good to go. The comment that kept coming back was..."If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc." Show intent to make a profit and have a business plan. I happened to collect several $$ from some sponsors and was paid to do some match races so proving the intent to make money was a no brainer. Unfortunately for me the race car ate all the money.

 

I think this really strikes it home. I would have to say that at every 'association', whether it be home owners or like wise, you get invited to the meeting in a open forum type manor and get to express your views, and opinions and the direction that things are going, if you so choose. NHRA only cares about the Nitro cars, much less the alky ranks. They made that quite clear earlier this year when the pro stock cars wanted to boycott because the track was dangerous. Their reply? Well we already ran two pairs, so we will pair them up and who ever wins, will be the winner if the others don't want to participate. Last I check Pro Stock was still a professional class...

 

I hate to be a cry baby, but the writing is on the wall for me. After the class ending for IHRA and all the new rules being recklessly imposed by NHRA. I feel I have better places to throw my money away. I have been in love with the funny cars since I was little. It was a dream come true to purchase one 2 years ago. With thousands of dollars being thrown at this sportsman’s class (haha), I still need to spend another $10,000 on the new brake rules and all the other new crap for 2011. Where does it end? I hate to say this, but the boat racing associations years ago, that I have been in ran a better program. Instead of making the racers spend thousands of dollars every time someone had a brain fart for a safety idea. They would put it on a boat or boats for a season and then review it at the end with the committee, some specialists and the racers. Most the crazy ideas never became mandated and there for made racing more affordable and the little guy still could be competitive or they would give the race teams 1 or 2 years to get it in place versus NHRA’s way of put it on yesterday. In asphalt racing all I have learned over the last 2 years is “he who has the most money wins and can survive”. What about the guy who puts in the most hours or has the biggest heart? That doesn’t seem to mean crap anymore.
As many of you have learned from the school of hard knocks. It isn’t real easy to get a sponsor for an alcohol car. I believe 90% of us out there do it out of our own pockets. My feeling s are (just my 2 cents), NHRA should sit down and work with everybody or we should go our own way. For example, I ran in a few boat circle boat outboard associations that would get paid for showing up and putting on a show in several different venues, about 10 races a year. All the racers were paid so much a mile and then they paid out 10 places per class. Usually there were 15-20 boats per class. We were not getting rich, but with local business’s wanting to pay to place their names on the side of the boats, travel pay and placing good, a guy could break even or make a buck or two. I don’t see anything like this in NHRA. The association that did this in the boat racing has been the longest lasting and most successful. Their attitude is “no racers, no fans, no fans, no money”, pretty simple. Here is the link to APR Super League, they know how to run it like a business and a hobby. www.aprsuperleague.com
Sam and Sherron Winer started this business in the mid 80’s after watching many others fail, because they got to greedy. I loved racing with them, but had to park my boats after a bad wreck in 2002 where I broke C2 and C4 in my neck. After sitting out for a long recovery, I decided to try my hands at a funny car, but now I feel like I have had my ass handed to me.
Sorry to ramble on, but this has been a build up for a while.
Thanks, Todd Lamb

 

increased costs

We are even lower on the sportsman racers totem pole than the alky cars. We have just had our enry fees for events go up to $310. If we get to the semis we get $150. NO THANKS. what a scam from the Nazi Hot Rod Association.
The NHRA is a greedy money hungry organization. To hell with the people that pay the bills, just as long as their "non-profit" can keep paying the big salaries of their people. We now have to have Hans device, -15 suits, dual chutes, new gloves, etc just in the sportsman ranks because someone that has never sat in a race car, much less drove one, thinks it is best. I am tired of the NHRA mandating to me what is best!!!!! They are acting more like the liberal run government everyday.

 

I hear ya.. .an then some.

I hear ya guys. You think you got it bad. What about us bracket racers. We HAVE to buy the national dragster and don't even get ink for our efforts. While I have not spend the hundreds of thousands that you guys have, I have spent plenty. Blown alcohol aint cheap no matter where you run it. With the exception of carbon brakes and blower bags, I have to run the same stuff you guys do. Fire bottles, -20 suits, Hans, etc. Now we have to run that damn sfi padding that is hard as a f'ing rock. I figure it's just a matter of time before I have to install the carbon brakes and the auto-deploy burst panel. .... and for what? $1000 to win a race. (that takes 7 to 8 rounds to win I might add). The rumor going round now is that EVERY participant at a NHRA (National Hokey Rules Association) will HAVE to be a member and pay for all the shit that no one wants. So much for the entry level racer. ........I think I'm gonna start punkin chunkin..........

 

Every new rule that comes out kills the the class a little bit.Sure alot of the new rules were made to make it safer to race but to what end do you take them. Most racers want a safe race car,but is it based on the dollar amount that the class can endure to upgrade the equipment?Who sets the amount of risk that a racer can take.Is it tik for tat (if a racer gets hurt, automatically you have to add a rule change)? If you want a "safe" race car then why not run them by remote control? And like Randy made a point of, that so much of the time the rules are to the letter of the law and not the reason. Case in point, the restraint cover that goes on top of the injector hat is made that in case of a blower explosion, it helps contain pieces of the hat, and the rules require blower cars to have them. Now look at the restraint that Top Fuel cars use,looks like a sting bikini on a fat chic,it would no more hold pieces of the injector than me holding a hand grenade! but by the rules it has a "restraint".
In 2009 I started to put together alchohol funnycar and have had the car running but getting the updates put on the car to maybe start racing in TAFC in 2011, but when the carbon brake rule came out, I have abandoned the notion of ever racing that class, just getting tired of every year there being several rules and updates to deal with.Might just run the local Fast 16 races.
-Dale

 

Shootin star set world rec!!!!

Way too go naves!!you killed the post rec on this deal!!!!!wow you are as popular as a HOT ASS CHERELEADRER W/KILLER LEG'S!!oh bad pitcure!!! GUY'S & some gal'''s BUNNY!!it all started w/a kinda Match racin& that's where it will most like'ly end sad!!COME ON BILL LET'S GO DOWN A JUNK TRACK AND HAVE SOME FUN MATCH RACIN!! YOU ALL HAVE A GREAT YEAR!! you too ihra & nh??i forgot

 

We gave up on Top Dragster too. At the last race we were told by an NHRA official that we couldn't use our pickup truck to tow the dragster up to the line and instead would have to invest in a golf cart. I decided that was enough and from now on we are racing with the Pacific ProComp series and other independent blown alcohol races.

 

Gibbs

Mike, I'm afraid the end is near. If the HRA have their way, we won't even be able to decide for ourselves if the tow to the track is allowed!.I'm all for safety recommendations, but these poorly thought out "ear marks" have me scratching my head..unknown alloy aluminum brake handle but no steel tube handle...didn't know my arms were stronger than my legs..but what do I know?I just wish they would forego ALL tech inspections because evidently they are cosidered brainless paper pushers(not my opinion) not allowed to actually inspect and recommend ANYTHING for fear of getting in trouble with someone. I've seen some questionable decisions on some construction and have offered suggestions to new racers over the year, but if they regulate everything, it will turn into what I said 10 years ago...enter the tech area and present your check book.if you cannot prove you have a minimum operation budget, go home.Personally, I have had almost no budget for so long, I wouldn't know what to do with one if I did. When I was a kid,,,,,,stuff like parachutes were linked to speed of vehicle.not the type of car.most changes were recommended a year before required and you had a warning,,that also allowed them to fix the recommendation before everyone bought the wrong stuff.NEVER can I remember a time where ONE source was forced on me until the last few years.For 25 years I called NHRA the $1000 a year club because I knew I would spend $1000 every winter to get ready for the spring in recerts and new rules..now its just nuts...Without that end of year matchrace, I can't get the next years rules done.OH WELL, travel is going up so I guess we'll be staying closer and closer to home from here on. No where to pass on the increase in costs...sorry I forgot...hobby!

 

Randy Randy Randy

Oh, did I post something here?

You miss the entire point, my friend. Go back to school, and this time don't sleep through the part about multiple personalities.

"Dissociative identity disorder" indeed!