EFI blower cars

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by boostedgt500, Sep 20, 2018.

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  1. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    Manzo tuned it but Castalana ran it.
     
    #21
    Mike Canter, Sep 24, 2018
  2. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    If I'm not mistaken, Brandon Pesz was the quickest blown car in Denver at the World Series deal. They recently switched to Fuel Tech with the FT Spark 8 Coil near plug deal.

    I do like the fact EFI paired with Coil near plug deal you can set some fail-safes per cylinder. So if EGT got too hot, you could add fuel or shut that cylinder off, or potentially shut the motor off.

    Being electronic on a can bus, I'm sure if any components quit working or crash, first off, I would bet the whole system would quit, thus killing the motor. If it was just a component failure, I'm sure the system registers if something is offline and could again shut off the engine if there is a fault.

    I think where EFI will make the gains is if it can better tailor the fuel curve than MFI. Having more 'resolution' in being able to make changes will allow the envelope to be pushed further.
     
    #22
    Will Hanna, Sep 25, 2018
  3. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Here's how I look at things, and my views may not necessarily match those of others, so you are warned.......

    An ECU opens the door for a person to exercise a very wide dynamic control range over the fuel, spark, or any other controllable device/system.

    With the current state of affairs you can reckon this to be akin to the EFI/TBI world of the early 80's. Controllable, but mostly dumb. Some compensation possible. Some exceptions to this rule exist or are emerging right now.

    Think forward to say the late 2010's, and the powertrain management systems in those vehicles. Somewhat more "intelligent" and a whole lot more active.

    I think the big gains for ECU control over blown meth or blown nitro will come when intelligent and/or closed loop control decisions can be made on the fly by the ECU, in conjunction with purpose built specific fuel charge delivery devices (not MFI).
     
    #23
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
    TOL, Sep 25, 2018
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  4. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    I know that in NHRA you can’t use a closed loop system.
     
    #24
    Mike Canter, Sep 25, 2018
  5. Dave Koehler

    Dave Koehler Member

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    Question
    How would anyone know you ran closed loop?
    How would tech find it?
     
    #25
    Dave Koehler, Sep 26, 2018
  6. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    And to add to that....... Who gets to define what "closed loop" really means?
     
    #26
    TOL, Sep 26, 2018
  7. aj481x

    aj481x Member

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    Honor system ;)
     
    #27
    aj481x, Sep 26, 2018
  8. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Spark retard based upon knock signature, closed loop?

    Fuel delivery per cylinder based upon WBEGO or EGT, closed loop?

    Torque converter clutch modulation based upon slip, closed loop?

    Spark control based upon traction or G's, closed loop?

    Engine acceleration rate based upon driveshaft RPM, closed loop?

    Various functions based upon gear, closed loop?

    And on, and on.......
     
    #28
    TOL, Sep 26, 2018
  9. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    All those above functions are illegal in NHRA. Closed loop referes to using an O2 that is feeding real time data back into a fuel control unit.

    I will say that I am so glad that NHRA does not allow traction control and lock up converters.
     
    #29
    Mike Canter, Sep 26, 2018
  10. sammy christian

    sammy christian Member

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    NOS cars allowed lock-up with a whopping 25# penalty and traction control as well.
    Closed loop isn't really a factor on a given run, most systems are not or barely capable to alter quick enough for these extremes but, data per run moving forward, takes a bunch of the magic out of it, a few keystrokes and a click or 2.
    You do realize that there are RVW cars out there running 3.60's(turbo and NOS)@219(turbo) 1/8th weighing 2900#, right?
    all efi.
     
    #30
    sammy christian, Sep 26, 2018
  11. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Well the Comsync stuff (as just one example only) is legal, and has some of the above, so how are people able to do that?
     
    #31
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
    TOL, Sep 26, 2018
  12. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    They can’t use the traction control and can’t use closed loop modes. I dont know how NHRA tech checks it of stops them but will ask them at the next race. Who do you know runs the Comsync EFI on a blower car in NHRA Promod? All the NHRA racers I know would not cheat.
     
    #32
    Mike Canter, Sep 26, 2018
  13. Nastychevelle

    Nastychevelle New Member

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    We have had extremely good luck with EFI on our screw cars. Been as fast as 3.59 at 216 at 128 over and 3.73 at 203 at 92 over. coil pack ignition, using ComSync EFI. If anyone has any questions about efi on a blower car id be glad to answer any of them.

    Reid Sanders
    Starting Line Motorsports
    618-975-8077
     
    #33
    Nastychevelle, Nov 29, 2018
  14. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    What record in what car?
     
    #34
    Mike Canter, Nov 29, 2018
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  15. promodracer

    promodracer Member

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    Big tire Screw
     
    #35
    promodracer, Dec 1, 2018
  16. sean70ss

    sean70ss Member

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    The procharger guys are using mechanical and efi together.
     
    #36
    sean70ss, Dec 4, 2018
  17. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Well-Known Member

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    That new 69 Camaro by Eric Dillard and proline is gonna become a problem. That article they put out about longevity of the part so inside and how hard they were running it at what would be legal nhra weight and boost..... major problem going forward. 100% fuel tech controlled and not a msd part one on it. They were out running legal blower cars there. And shifting around 9100?!? That will all but kill the blower scene. 50 runs on rods, springs that will go more , smooth controlled ignition , and it run .906 60ft times with a non lock up 3 speed. Did I miss anything?
     
    #37
    jay70cuda, Dec 4, 2018
    shawn likes this.
  18. rb0804

    rb0804 Active Member

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    Link to said article?
     
    #38
    rb0804, Dec 4, 2018
  19. sammy christian

    sammy christian Member

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    #39
    sammy christian, Dec 4, 2018
  20. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Hats off to them for taking a centrifugal blower quicker than it's been, but if they are running those ET's at 9100 rpm I would say a rules adjustment for Midwest and other series is in order. They were able to run at 2425 and if I had to guess are somewhere around 50 lbs of boost. I think the larger superchargers are superior to a roots, but probably need a weight and overdrive adjustment to put them in-line with the screws.

    Unrestricted, you're not going to get that kind of parts life running against other unrestricted screw blown cars, because you won't get away shifting at 9100.

    I'd say the biggest cost savings would be blower belts. I know in the radial world they have had problems with those things living but I don't know if they have fixed all of that.

    ProLine has their shit together so I would expect nothing less.
     
    #40
    Will Hanna, Dec 5, 2018
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