cylinder wall freshen-up?

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by Scouder, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. Scouder

    Scouder New Member

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    Just getting ready to throw some new pistons and rings in, and wondered what to do about honing the cylinders. Is it common to just hit them with a ball hone or what?

    These are Hellfire, so I am going to do 280 grit, just need to know if I have to drive 100 miles to a machine shop or if can I do this myself.

    -Brian
     
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  2. Blownalky

    Blownalky Top Sportsman

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    I'm sure I'll get beat up for this but I'm a big fan of ball hones after the initial bore and hone. Have been doing this for well over 30 years without an issue. Of course you can't have real deep grooves in the cylinders but small grooves and scratches are no big deal. It really depends on your budget, time and if you have OCD for perfect bores. I've always strived for perfection but my pocket book has made me face reality and in the long run I have saved a lot of money that I didn't really have. Because of that I could go racing. My two cents.

    Tom
     
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  3. WANNABE

    WANNABE New Member

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    Ball hones are great, and for most ring packages, you will be just fine. But with the HTD/HellFire rings, they will NOT seat on a ball hone finish. You MUST have the 280 grit. (Make sure the machine shop knows this, as they finish things to a finer finish as a standard.)
    I have had multiple engines that people bring to my dyno looking for miracles, and when I see the 13-15% leak-down after everything is all warmed up, I already know what it is. So I ask; "Hellfire rings huh?" "Yeah - why?" "Because you didn't finish the block to the 280 finish, did you?" "I figured it would be good enough" So, it gets taken apart and back to the machine shop and wala. Another 100 horsepower.
    And HellFire rings will make less power than a standard moly. The key is they are much more durable. Make sure you need them before you use them.
     
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  4. secondwindracing

    secondwindracing top alcohol

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    Big ball hone fan here;)...dave
     
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  5. eli

    eli Banned

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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
  6. M Tigges

    M Tigges TAFC

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  7. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

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    I would check with the ring mfgr to get there advice and let us know.
    I did this years ago when we went to Hellfire, we ended up with a Brush Research Mfg 280 grit ball hone. Maybe there is better or maybe they changed there advice, if there is we would all like to hear it.
     
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  8. WANNABE

    WANNABE New Member

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    I will admit that I have not tried all of the different ball hones. (And there may be one out that that can get it there.) But I have tried one that was supposed to be a 280 grit, and after measuring the merlin pro, it got it nowhere even close. Maybe the block was too hard??
     
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  9. john348

    john348 Top Alcohol

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    BR doesnt make a 280 grit
    240 or 320 is your choices

    correct way is to hone with 280 grit
    finish wih a brush hone (plateau hone)
     
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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
  10. smblkbob

    smblkbob Member

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    Due to finances, last year was the first that we've used a ball hone.
    We use Moly rings and by mistake used a BR 240 ball hone.
    Motor ran fine but leak down was much more than we'd seen.

    This last build used a 320 ball hone. Haven't run the car yet so don't know the result but by looking at the ring specs, 320 was recommended for moly.

    Is this correct in the real world?

    Bob
     
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  11. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

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    I looked back and yes you're right its 240.
     
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  12. Scouder

    Scouder New Member

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    I have been doing some back channel research as well, and the advice I'm getting is to just ball hone it at 240. The rings will seat fine. The manufacturer calls out 280, but that isn't a grit you can buy. Ball hone is on order.

    Thanks again for all the replies.

    -Brian
     
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  13. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

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    You're not trying to hone the fresh bore job to the final size are you?
     
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  14. Scouder

    Scouder New Member

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    No. I am putting new pistons and rings in the old holes. Just need to re-scratch the walls to get the new rings to seat. I called a high performance machine shop about 100 miles from me and asked if I should bring the block to them to hone it, they said just ball hone it. That's all they do with their fuel motor with hellfires and they seat fine. It could be argued that they put just a tiny little bit more cylinder pressure on their big show deal than I do :p, but I'm gonna risk it.

    -Brian
     
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  15. rb0804

    rb0804 Member

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    So everyone uses a ball hone then? Any one use a 'glaze breaker?'
     
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  16. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    Not everyone uses a ball hone by any means. Not to be a prick, just sayin.
    But, not everyone has a ck10 in their garage either. With hell fire rings, just make sure it is course enough to seat those hard ass things. Moly is much more forgiving with fine finish, but won't hold up in the bad ass apps.
    So, like most things in life.. compromise is what it is.
    Wags
     
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