Clutch-Counterweight Distribution

Bryan you need at least a 1.75 low gear with a 4.30. if you dont run a leaner through low gear a 1.80 to 1.84 first gear.

 

Thanks for the help. I think now we can get close and then fine tune from there. I really appreciate the advice.

bryan brown

 

Man this is a good topic! How does this info compare to a PSI/Hemi BAD with a 10" big stand alum hat?

Crower sent me my clutch with 5 turns of base (i'm guessing the 10.7 clutch has a higher spring rate with on 2-3 turns). I looked at the booklet Malinari sent me and it says 28g of total weight.

1.64 low x 4.30 rear.

Im looking to get a bit more aggressive than the "factory setting" since my 60' are down.

In what steps should I apply more weight or turns of base? Can someone explain what only giving base will do?

I'm new and trying to sponge all this in!

 

Crew, the 'factory' setting on our Crower was 3 turns.

We're a newer team, so we're not real smart on this stuf yet. Generally, our National event setup is significantly different than our Divisonal setup. If our Divisional baseline is 3 turns and 16 grams, then our National event setup might be closer to 4 turns and 32 grams. (general #'s for reference points, not specific-don't assume these are good tuning #'s) NHRA races, so the track prep and quality of surface is very different between National and Divisional.

 

we have a crower small stand 10" clutch in the dragster and was wondering were to start and be as safe as possable on the set up 451" BAE 3 speed lenco psi 4.30 gears first gear i think is a 1.58 or 1.62 will knows the gear in it, i was thinking about 3 turns of static in at a base of .708 and counter weight of 12 gms per lever thats my thought, share yours thanks

 

Now my curiosity is really peaking-6-1/2 to 7-1/4 turns in a TAD(assumption)!!

As I mentioned earlier, we've just begun to really throw clutch at our TAFC after 10-12 races in our backpocket. So far, she won't hold much more than 4 turns on a really, really good track. On a poor Div. track with so-so air, we really have to back down the static turns and counterweight to get it off the line. We've run .970'ish 60 ft. times and qualified in the top 1/2 in the past 4-5 races. So far, our general clutch setup looks to be really light, though, compared to what I am seeing in this discussion. I hope we're not missing something obvious.

Question for clarification: 1.) Is there any relevant comparison between TAD and TAFC for static and counterweight? I apologize if this is a stupid question, but we have no TAD experience and it seems to me that there isn't much relevant comparison, the TAD handles a much more 'aggressive' setup from what I can see. 2.) What are acceptable setup tolerances for most teams, regarding clutch install?

Great discussion, thanks to all involved.

 

Just keep in mind, the more power (torque) you're making, the less clutch you'll need.

 

Alkydrag...

I think you have half of that statement right..I think you want to give it all the clutch and power the TRACK can take...if the track can't handle the motor going 1:1 sooner, thats when you pull clutch or kill horsepower or both, to get the car down the track...you might as well use that EXTRA power you are making instead of slipping it away by too light a clutch

 

Woz, your absolutely right. Let me add a little bit to that. If your only making 2000 horsepower, you need more clutch than if your making 3000 horsepower to get the same reaction. But obviously you'd like to give it as much clutch as the race track can handle. By the way, do you guys need some help, I'm just around the corner.

 

i look at the clutch and what i see if i am right,the more static you run will get you off the line and down the track a ways but you need counter weight, to me you need static for 60' the more you run. the more you run the risk of smokeing the tires counter weight will give you mph and help lock the clutch up. if you run lots of static and the track aint that good you will spin the tires and counter weight will take over and thats not good. thats my thoughts

 

This may be for another topic, I have seen a car be running well but they decide abandon that tranny ratio & clutch setup for a complete different deal. If I remember right they went from a 1.64 to a 1.58 and threw less weight at the clutch and improved.

What would the reason for this be? What would signify that a change like this would improve the car?

 

uncle bob: this is a serious question...so don't take it as me arguing your point. i worked with mike kosky in atlanta, and he doesn't change/grind the discs every run like you say. since you have experience with this, at what point do change them out? if clutch wear becomes uneven? do you compensate with minor adjustments per run and/or when you put a fresh or new pack in it?

Will; I've been away playing (old)human on an Alaskan cruise deal for 2 weeks, too cool !

As you know, I'm pre-computer, so a lot of this was learned the hard way. The computer is certainly a god-send, but, remember I burn metal for a living! I know what color it turns when it gets too hot! If the floaters (which I DO believe in grinding) get real blue down to the center, you are way too light on static. To turn the tips blue with a slight bit of warpage, I'd simply turn them backward and add 2 grams per finger.
Once you get to this point for a baseline, you can generally run 5-6 runs without pulling the can!
Of course you have to be able to read what it's telling you, what the track, sun, humidity, National or Divisional rubber, and most important, if you are holding your mouth right! Then you make the changes, per run/day the car or track tells you it needs.

The numbers I think you want are: .285 thick/88 B for the discs and .325 for the floaters. The old days .250 floaters (new)were easy to learn from, but were a pain in the _$$.

 

Does anyone here have access to plate load / torque capacity math related to a typical TAD/TAFC clutch?

 

Bob, I'm curious are you saying that .285 is the minimum thickness you run discs and .325 min for the floaters? I have always been told .270 was a good minimum number for both discs and floaters as long as there is sufficient hub clearance in the assembled pack. Thanks! Doug

 

Doug; maybe it's just coincidence, but usually by the time the discs get to .285 they have turned to stone (over 88 B Rockwell).

 

Will;
I would just like to throw something out here for all to think about, I also am not trying to be a smartass knowitall, but am enjoying the openness of the conversation.

At 6.5 to 7.25 turns, do you think the springs are close to coil bind ? Would you run the motor with the springs close to coil bind or go to stouter springs ? This is my question, anybody got thoughts ?

If I were you with that converter, I think I'd be tickled to not have those knobs to fiddle with!
Maybe I'll get to find out next year! (if Gary will let me hang out).