Flowbench fluid

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by NITROBANDIT1, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. NITROBANDIT1

    NITROBANDIT1 LOST IN SPACE

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    ive seen posted in several places that people who flow fuel injector systems sometimes use water, or a ( industrial fluid that has the same specific gravity as alchohol) . ive never seen this secret released as to what exactly whos brand and what it is that they use that is the same. any ideas? apparently using alchhol in the flowbench is a hazard, that seems there is regulations on, so anybody know what this stuff is i could use in my flowbench for a more accurate readings? thanks for the input. dan
     
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  2. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

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    I use alcohol, Enderle uses water with a lube. I think you need to ask yourself if you want to see how trends change and compare or if you want to be a laboratory and be accurate. I'm using these terms in a very technical sense. For instance, accuracy is different than repeatability. To be accurate you need a set of calibration standards and religisouly compare to that. Along with doing A test than B test than A test again to make sure nothing accidently changed.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  3. Bob69

    Bob69 Member

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    Testing fluid

    I have found that the guys using fluids that closely match the specific gravity of alcohol keep it close to their chest of what it is.
    Here comes the dumb question.
    In the same breath I have also learned that for what ever reason (according to some tech guys) there appears to be a big difference in flow figures when you use alcohol (or similar fluid) compared to water (similar SG as Nitro) .
    My new water tested Waterman pump flowed according to Waterman 20.7 GPM, flowed again a couple of years later with 20 laps of use, it flowed 17. 8 GPM, and according to the company that flowed my pump (well regarded as reasonably clued up on this), that the flow figure is pretty close to what the pump flows when new using his alcohol SG fluid.

    If there is a proven difference between flow figures when using different fuels, is it because the water (nitro) closes up the clearances compared to alcohol or fluids similar to alcohol?
     
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  4. SRT1

    SRT1 New Member

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    We used solvent in our flow bench for the fuel car pumps.
     
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  5. kosky racing

    kosky racing Comp Eliminator

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    flow

    I allways used scented kerosene or stoddard solvent very close s.g.The kero keeps the pumps lubed.the solvent is dryer--no lube. Water with soluable oil added is the most common, temp changes as small as 5 degrees can change flow #s Mike
     
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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
  6. Dave Koehler

    Dave Koehler Member

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    Here is one place for test fluids. http://www.rockvalleyoil.com/cf.html

    1: I use methanol after trying just about everything available off the shelf.
    PS: Never try wd40!
    2: Turbine meters are calibrated for water. Calibrate them for the fluid you are using.
    3: Turbine meters may or may not be properly calibrated. They do not test each one that goes out the door.
    4: 2 identical turbines may get substantially different numbers. See #3
    5: Turbines must be calibrated by you for the fluid you are using.
    6: IF everyone calibrated their turbines we would see comparison numbers closer together. Never perfection but closer.
    6A: If you test and tune off of the same bench then calibration will likely not matter much. Kind of like tire gauges. Ignore everyone else.
    6B: You may want to pay your flow guy to calibrate your turbine to match his bench.
    7: Water is fine and if you only use the bench on occasion. You must drain and pickle the bench after use or you get stinky stuff and corrosion which leads to clogged stuff and internal fitting and turbine damage. Distilled water works best.
    8: Factory pump ratings: You probably won't see these numbers. Too many variables as noted and the numbers rated may have been the very best number they saw 20 years ago. Was it right then? Who knows. Better to look at it as a range that you are in.
    Most do not run a blank main jet so if the rating is well above your max gpm needs then it makes no difference other than bragging rights.

    Extra things that help:
    1: rig up a separate electric pump and circulate the bench fluid through a big water filter.
    2: I run a chiller on my bench to keep the fluid at 60 degrees +/1 degree. Helps keep winter to summer numbers consistent.
    3: Traditional / Old school says that there must be X length before and after the turbine for greatest accuracy. Certainly, but do you see any mounted on cars that meet that recommendation? Give it some thought. See 6A.

    Dave Koehler
    http://www.koehlerinjection.com
     
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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
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  7. NITROBANDIT1

    NITROBANDIT1 LOST IN SPACE

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    my fluid flowing

    got this from the calibration fluid place.......The Specific Gravity of Methanol is 0.793 @ 20C and the closest gasoline calibrating fluid we will be able to offer is our Viscor 16-B at 0.781 @ 20C. All of our calibrating fluids have a Flash Point of at least 100F due to safety and insurance purposes. The Flash Point of Methanol is extremely low at about 55F and is considered a hazardous fluid due to its Flammability. does this sound close to what i would need, or not quite enough? what do you guys think?
     
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  8. Larry Reep

    Larry Reep New Member

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    water flow

    If you flow with water & lube multiply reading by .9868 this will give you alky numbers.
    Reeper
     
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  9. rotory26

    rotory26 New Member

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    What if you use 50/50 water/ methanol, wouldnt that be close to the specifics and also be safe.
     
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  10. TWD

    TWD Blown alky

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    Mass flow meters

    Just a thought.
    Would it help to use mass flow meters? This will at least tell you the exact amount without calibration factors for the fluid you're pumping. The difference between readings might as well be related to turbine flow meter response to differences in SG and viscosity.
    Rediculously expensive when new, but enter 'micro motion' on ebay and a lot show up at decent prices and that's just one manufacturer.

    I'm guessing numbers will be closer then. Maybe just viscosity to consider for internal pump leakage, but you'll have that issue regardless of the type of flow meter.

    A simple way to calibrate flow meters: pass a known (big) amount of fluid through it at the speed you want and compare totalised flow and the amount of fluid you used. That's how some laboratories calibrate mass flow meters and you don't need a calibrated reference flow meter to do that.


    HTH,
    Marcel
     
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  11. NITROBANDIT1

    NITROBANDIT1 LOST IN SPACE

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    me fluid

    still havent found exactly a match for the flowbench. close, but not exactly. is there anything besides the fuel itself thats exactly the same?
     
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  12. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Larry,
    Where did you find that .9868 number? Do you know what the multiplier would be if you used only water. From what I can find the multiplier would be .886411. So, 10 GPM of water would be equivalent 8.86411 GPM of Methanol.
    Thanks for all your help,
    Blake
     
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  13. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

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    Unfortunately Larry passed away last year. Smart guy.
     
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  14. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Will,
    I am truly sorry to hear about that, I hope everything is going well for you and everybody on this forum.
    Blake
     
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