Chilling , Nitro Fuel ??

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by nitrohemi, Sep 6, 2008.

  1. nitrohemi

    nitrohemi injected nitro!!

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    After attednding recent races, and competing in tad running an injected nitro dragster , its very common to see most a/fuel teams are chilling the nitro in the trailer & pouring it the tank , just before they go to the staging lanes , and keeping the tanks insualated or wraped while waiting to run
    no complaints with that at all , it sure is a low cost way to pick up a tenth or so .wondering , whats the advantage ?
    as i chilled a jug of 95.8 % @ home in my chest freezer & after it was 30 degrees , its still tested 95.8 ??
     
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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  2. eli

    eli Banned

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    Here's what you need to do, leave some out in the heat and see if it loses %
    then if it dose you can figure it out your self. ;)
     
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  3. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    chemistry

    in a perfect world, 95.8% nitro will be 95.8% nitro at any temperature, just that the specific gravity for that certain percentage will change with temperature. it's still 95.8.

    i only played with this a few races, but apparently what happens as the temperature rises, it's easier for some of your methanol to evaporate, thus increasing the percentage.

    it makes sense to chill the fuel to achieve a denser fuel mixture. a few years ago, conway was doing this and everyone raised holy high hell. they even made a rule about it, which they then changed their stance to what the rule book originally stated was that it couldn't be cooled after the fuel was in the car. i remember when shelly was driving tom's car, the nitro was kept on dry ice, and there would be nitro ice cubes in the fuel jugs.
     
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  4. Ron C

    Ron C Jr. Dragster

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    The thought that also comes to my mind is, and you said the word but I don't think you applied it. Density! Wouldn't you also be able to achieve more total potential BTU's by volume with a chilled fuel even though the percentage would read the same? Water is the only substance that expands when chilled (kepts the fish alive, God thing) everything else reduces in volume size.
    Just a thought..........

    Blessings.........Ron Clevenger.
     
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  5. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Chilled fuel would cool the incoming mixture even more than ambient temp fuel would. Cooler mixtures are more dense hence more air and fuel. Dave Germain
     
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  6. mbaker3

    mbaker3 New Member

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    It sounds like most that have responded agree that cooler fuel would be more dense, creating the need for "more air". Does anyone actually do this and what are the results?

    If this is an experiment that needs to happen, then just assign it to someone and let them tell us what happened when they did it.

    I vote for Dave G. to do it and give us the end results! :)
     
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  7. nitrohemi

    nitrohemi injected nitro!!

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    1.Bill Reichert
    2.Art Gallant
     
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  8. Ron C

    Ron C Jr. Dragster

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    The only experiment that is needed is what to do to the tune up to apply it. And that should be a mathematical equation to get into the ball park. It's straight forward in physical sciences that it's denser, hence more btu's per volume. The NHRA Stock and Super Stockers have been applying it for many years in chilling or cooling there fuel. It's the same science, just a different tune up application. I would suggest that someone is already applying it.

    Blessings........Ron Clevenger.
     
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  9. nitrohemi

    nitrohemi injected nitro!!

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    bought smaller chest freezer installed in trailer , holds 4 jugs , should do the trick ,
     
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  10. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Anytime the denisty of nitro changes there will be a percentage change.
    With the current method used to temp correct the percentage you wish to run it will be that percentage no matter the temp. If you read the density of 96 percent nitro @ 60 degrees temp corrected it will read the same density @70 degreess. This said a cool 97 percent would probably produce a little more hp. Of course you have the evaperation of the alcohol that is reducing the fuel intake charge temp so what effect this has on the fuel temp I am not sure. When we were allowed to run nitro right out of the can almost nobody had a hydrometer. Then it was an excellent idea and performance inhancer to chill the nitro.
     
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  11. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    I think there are two factors here- fuel and air. I don't know that cooling the fuel will increase it's density much but cooling the air will increase it's density. I was thinking that cooler fuel would cool the air more so more air density. The big question is- can I cool the incoming air/fuel mixture enough to allow me to run more fuel through the motor? More air/fuel=more power. But on the other hand unless my clutch is locked from the starting line to the finish line do I need anymore power? Dave Germain
     
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  12. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    response

    First off, the user formerly known as Jenell is no longer a member of the site. Nearly every one of her posts on the site had a personal attack, and her response to nitrohemi was no different....moving on.

    Bob,

    Are you saying that a jug of nitro, with x amount of nitro and y amount of methanol, in a sealed container, premixed to 95% at 75 degrees will become say 93% at 90 degrees with no volumetric changes to the amount of alcohol?? Maybe I'm missing something, but that goes against everything I learned in chemistry....

    I think what most teams are concerned with is the opposite. You mix the nitro in a relatively controlled temperature environment back at the pit. At very least you're in the shade, possibly AC, or chilled as the discussion we have here. However, the risk is that if you have the % close in a controlled environment, when the car leaves the pit and goes to the hot staging lanes, the concern is that the methanol will evaporate with the increased heat and cause the nitro % concentration to rise.

    To the best of my understanding, the reason why they give out charts with hydrometers is that 95% nitro will have "X" specific gravity at 75 degrees and that it will have "Y" specific gravity at 90 degrees. I don't think it's because the percentage of nitro goes up as temperature changes, unless I'm missing the boat here or misunderstanding your latest post.
     
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  13. nitrohemi

    nitrohemi injected nitro!!

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    Can i pour my fuel in the car , in the staging lanes ? that way it can stay as cool as possible . like a couple cars back in line. as long as I dont hold anyone up . This way I can get every possible advantage of the chilled fuel . & on the competion. So those darn blown cars wont win anymore races & NHRA can take some more % away .
     
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