Drag racing safety

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by Relentless, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Bit of an open topic here but its been playing on my mind. Just watched the Senna film made going over his career etc and of course his death. In the film it shows quite a few crashes which for want of a better phrase made me feel ill, especially the Martin Donnolly one, the entire seat/seat belts breaks out of the car.

    Anyway, it got me thinking about a typical funny car/altered/dragster chassis, there is no protection other than a seat from objects penetrating in a crash, none at all, the driver is so exposed, when you compare an F1 cockpit to drag racing.

    Have a look at this link, pretty much what Don Schumacher has just introduced.

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/groups/f1/forum/topic/f1-safety-closed-cockpit/

    Now I am not saying that funny cars and altereds should have canopies but am just opening a discussion on safety in general in this sport.

    One place I think they are weak is side impact from debris/tyre/whatever, thought about welding tabs to the outside of chassis and fitting Kevlar to the outside, so that this stops things going right through the seat etc.

    Obviously there have been steps to improve safety such as roll cage shields etc etc and I am not disputing drag racing rules etc, purely want to make our cars safer.

    Any comments/suggestions?!
     
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  2. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    shields

    Some FC teams have started putting Titanium side shields around the driver's compartment, as have some dragsters.

    I have seen a few FC's out there with 'knee' bars to make sure the knee area is not the highest point sticking out of the driver's compartment.

    What Schumacher is working on will definitely be the wave of the future.
     
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  3. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Will, thanks for reply. Any photos of the side shields at all?

    Yep, we added knee bars back in 2005 as its the highest area and will help.

    Agree, its just how to adapt to a funny car.
     
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  4. G. Anderson

    G. Anderson Member

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    Another help would be some kidney type tubes around the driver.

    It couldn't hurt!

    Your Pal, Gary
     
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  5. summitcb

    summitcb Member

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    My new (2010) Spitzer (TD) dragster has a carbon fiber body and carbon fiber side panels along both sides of the driver's cockpit. So if the body ever comes apart in a crash at lest my arms and legs are still in the cockpit and provided some extra protection. I would imagine titanium panels would be fairly expensive?

    Steve
     
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  6. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Seems to me somebody was working on a self contained & protected seat environment, that could be cut away from a chassis post incident. Thought it was Force? Kind of like a survival pod of sorts. Wonder whatever became of that program? Very similar to what you are describing.
     
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  7. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Safety

    I read this thread and just wanted to play wet blanket for a moment. Everytime there is a serious (fatality) crash the routine has been for the NHRA to NOT release any information concerning their 'investigation' into the causes and results of what happened. So nobody learns anything from the tragedy. The next step is rules changes mandating something that they feel will fix the problem. Most of the time these rule changes are expensive and may or may not address the actual issues. Now you guys are talking about kevlar coccoons to prevent tragedies that haven't even occurred yet? The rule changes have already legislated all kinds of drivers right out of the sport. How about the carbon fiber brakes? Eveybody loves them but if you recall they were the response to parachute anchors ripping off a couple of cars causing fatalities. Maybe a more spot on response should have been stronger chute anchor mounts? If we keep making the cars safer the end result will be remote controlled cars and some video game geek driving them from the grandstand? If it wasn't a little dangerous would it even be fun to drive them? Maybe a carbon fiber/kevlar wrapped driver who looks like the Michelin man would be better yet? I guess my wet blanket thought- don't borrow trouble from tomorrow for today. If guys want to 'what if' this to death when do we start requiring head shields for meteor strikes in the staging lanes? Dave Germain
     
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  8. tafccrewguy

    tafccrewguy New Member

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    Stay in your wet blanket for once.
     
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  9. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Not too sure how to reply to this...let me start by saying...

    A - I own three cars - there mine I will do what I want with them all.
    B - My dad drives one - my brother drives one - I drive one.
    C - Of course its dangerous, but why not try to improve???

    Driving a car because its 'dangerous' is one thing but when MY family drive the cars, then I as the crew chief will make them as safe as I can and to the best of my ability.

    Didn't start this topic to offend or cause some horrific argument or issues, PURELY to try to make our sport safer. As I really think there are flaws to alot of cars and there designs.

    At the end of the day I love my family more than anything on earth so simply want to protect them, to quote a post I wrote on another forum, if I can take away 1% of the 'danger' or 'risk' then great.
     
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  10. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Really? Sweet, will look into this, thanks
     
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  11. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Sounds good mate, very sensible, in worst case its got to help.

    Titanium is expensive but were lucky enough to have a metal supplier as a sponsor, that said I'd love to be able to get this to a point where we can supply 'kits' to provide some sort of extra driver safety.
     
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  12. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Safety

    If I was building a car for one of my kids to drive you can be assured I would do whatever was safest. And you (relentless) are welcome to do absolutely anything you want to do with your cars. All I am saying is that when the NHRA mandates safety changes they are for everybody in the class. Not just the guy with three cars and a titanium sponsor. If making racing completely risk free was the objective and cost was no object then lets build the cars safer. But in doing so how many 'little guy' racers like me won't be out there? I am not some rube who isn't familiar with death and dying. I was a firefighter/paramedic for a large metropolitan fire department in the US for over 30 years. I have literally seen hundreds or maybe even thousands of car crashes. I don't want anybody to get hurt but on the otherhand I certainly don't want the attorneys to legislate drag racing right out of existence either. Dave Germain
     
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  13. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Dave, that's a better reply! That's the thing here I am not on a one man crusade to ruin others cars and cost them money, but surely if just one life is saved from any change that NHRA, SFi, me, you, whoever make then its completely worth while???

    The fact we have three cars doesn't mean much if I am honest, old man has been doing for 31 years and we do everything our selves, learnt the hard way in the past not to depend on others so we make everything we are able to. Yes the sponsor helps with material but we still have to make whatever it is in question.

    What I want to try and do is make any car safer, even a 10 second altered is doing 130+mph and I ideally want to try between the whole drag racing community to adapt ideas into things that 'any racer' can do themselves, simply to make a safer race car. That's all.

    Do not envy you at all for seeing all those crashes and can imagine that's something that sticks in your head forever, but you better than most will know exactly what cars/metal/etc can do to people.

    Like I said, not in it to make cars that are pricing others out of the sport, not my aim at all. Just to make them safer for all.
     
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  14. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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  15. Richard Putz

    Richard Putz Top Alcohol Dragster

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    Safety

    I believe because the cars are getting faster and faster there needs to be more done for safety. After wrecking my car very bad and having it come apart, I am only alive because of the titanium head sheild and many of the other mandates we have. I did not like buying any of the safety stuff anymore than anyone else, but when you get in a "BAD" crash let me tell you you will wish you had more protection than is what is mandated now. You can not believe what damage just your broken wing struts and tubing will do to try to poke holes in stuff and cut you in half. If I were to race again I would have a thin titanium skin on the sides and around my kidneys and also extend the head shields to the front hoop like all the smart people are doing. I know it "sucks" to have to buy the stuff, but if you "Love Life" and want to stay alive to race another day I would highly recommend making the cars safer. A lot of the mandates that are made come from NHRA talking to a racer involved in a crash or as we know most times after its to late when someone gets killed. I owe my life to Darrel Russell because of the mandates implemented after his death. Just my 2 cents worth, Richard Putz
     
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  16. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Thanks for this reply Richard, genuine insight on a crash. Can I ask what happened?

    Me and my old man were looking round our cars last night and talked about titanium skin literally around drivers, one thing that we thought about was how to mount it? Reason I say this is, say you use a moly tab/bracket, if that was to be broken by say a tire would that sheet of ti then become worse to be there? IE like a guileteen?

    You mention the head shields and people going to the front hoop, one thing with a funny car or altered, just wonder how this might affect vision? Failing that maybe go to front hoop but under the helmet bar, so as to add something rather than nothing.
     
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  17. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Safety

    Thanks for the great replies Richard and Relentless. If there was one thing about safety that I would change it is the information gap. Richard you brought that up. I am not a pilot and I certainly don't want the NTSB involved in our sport but they do one thing that I think is great. They (National Transportation Safety Board?) investigate all sorts of transportation accidents. Especially plane crashes- all of them, little and big. Then they publish their investigation results. This way we all learn about what happened and more importantly what not to do. I went to Hawley's school years ago. I asked about a accident with a Afuel car at Sonoma. I couldn't believe the shocked look on Frank and Jeff Arends faces. Apparently we don't talk about accidents? High speed accidents are terrible things- lets learn from them and PREVENT them. I don't want to have an accident like yours Richard or anybody else's either. Lets learn from tragedies and prevent them. Dave Germain
     
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  18. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Could not agree more. I have read ALOT lately about accidents in motorsports and found out some pretty shocking things. But it seems its all a big secret? I do understand in certain cases for the sake of family that things should be cut down for example when a death occurs, it would be very unfair to give every detail. But they need to provide the whys and how to improve. Says alot for safety when Force was ok (could of been SO much worse) from his crash, its just there is room for big improvements.
     
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  19. jim@victoryracecars

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    Which Force crash are you referring to?:)
     
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  20. tafccrewguy

    tafccrewguy New Member

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    Dave Germain your box is full.


    Well Im a nobody, thats why I dont post my name . Why are you always so negative in your posts ? I dont really care to talk to you on the phone but cool down a little. I come on here to learn ,not comment much ,but quit barking at people. Chris
     
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