What kind of air in tires?

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by Flamin Raymond, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. Flamin Raymond

    Flamin Raymond New Member

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    In a recent post someone is busting about the same kind of air in their tires, well I'm a crew guy in Div.1 and we wondered once if anyone used an inert gas(Argon,Nitrogen?) for filling tires instead of compressed air? Heat in the tires should not change the pressure after a burnout or is an increase in pressure necessary? Any thoughts?
     
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  2. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    i'm no chemist, but i think it's boyles law that states that with any gas, as heat goes up, so does pressure. i think that is a physical property of any substance, rather than a property specific to the particular chemical, albeit inert or not. to the best of my chemical knowledge, the term inert refers to the atom's charge of 0, thus it doesn't want to react with another element or ion.

    the post you are making reference to was merely a joke between marty thacker and stacy mclemore, lee callaway's crew chief.

    someone correct me if i'm wrong on my chemistry, it's been a few years...
     
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  3. Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC

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    from: http://kekule.chem.csus.edu/gaslaws/charles.html

    Charles' Law:

    For a fixed amount of gas (fixed number of moles) at a fixed pressure, the volume is proportional to the temperature.

    In other words, as the temperature increases, the volume increases. (When you heat a balloon the volume of the balloon goes up.)
     
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  4. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    nathan, thanks for the chem 1 review. i guess what they say about cramming is true....DOH!
    :D
     
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  5. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

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    You're both correct as Boyle's and Charles' laws describe the behavior of an ideal gas. For all practical purposes, common gases -- nitrogen, oxygen, argon, helium, etc -- behave as ideal gases.

    The kicker, however, is water which is ever present in air. If water vapor gets into the inflated tire, it can condense on the interior surfaces. If the tire pressure adjusted with moisture present, when the tire gets hot the pressure will increase more than expected. The moisture (liquid) turns into water vapor (gas) increasing its volume far in excess of what ideal gas behavior predicts. Varying moisture contents of air -- as will happen with varying ambient temperature, barometric pressure and humidity -- will lead to varying pressure increases.

    NASCAR Nextel Cup teams use nitrogen in their tires primarly because it is very, very dry. Thus they get consistent -- and predictable -- behavior in terms of pressure increase as the tires heat up. Well dried compressed air will behave like nitrogen and is certainly more affordable.

    And, yes, I do have a degree in chemistry.
     
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  6. Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC

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    No problem Will...just finished my grade 12 high school chemistry class at the end of January...seems to be one of the few things that has stuck...unlike other subjects...
     
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  7. uwarrior

    uwarrior Member

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    A top fuel buddy used, I think, Nitrogen in his tires as a weight saving idea. Said nitrogen weight less than oxygen. Fact or fiction?

    Paul
     
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  8. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

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    Nitrogen has a molecular weight of 28 and oxygen 32. Thus nitrogen is 12.5% lighter than oxygen. However, oxygen comprises only 20% air. Air then has an effective molecular weight of 28.8. So nitrogen is only 2.8% lighter than air.

    Given this small difference and the weight of tire and wheel assembly compared to the gas inside, I don't think the weight difference between air and nitrogen would have a noticable effect.

    Also consider that water has a molecular weight of 18. It's lighter than either nitrogen or oxygen. So increased humidity means decreased air density -- lighter air. (Odd, isn't it, that very humid, foggy air is considered 'heavy air' when it is actually lighter than dry air?!) In fact, 7.4% water will give air the same effective molecular weight as nitrogen. (Don't confuse this percent water with the percent relative humidity you hear in weather reports -- they're different.)
     
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  9. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    rocky-

    thanks for the input! great to have a resident chemical expert on the board.

    give me a call (979) 415-4959 monday morning.
     
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