RUNNIN 96% maximum

Other than Mike the Gun making a shot with the reduced calorie formula, who else has taken a hit with 96% ??? Mike says it was a pooch, guess that interpets to: DOG ??? Has anybody else been there and discovered "good times" ? seems as though the injected-blown Top Fuel guys could compensate with mo puff, but when AFD's or jus breathen like the rest of the normal asperated world how could they not have less performance? jus my not so certified engneering mind wondering? hay Albert what do you think? dats ALBERT as in Einstein and all dat relative stuff Relativity??? is that a family activity or some kind bench raceing high folutin collection on werds?? lol lol warren dauzat PHD

[ December 07, 2004, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: NITROITCH ]

 

Warren, Mark Niver tried the week before and lost two tenths in 330ft. We ran slower but not terrible in 2 to 400ft of air, as soon as that changed 1000 to 1500ft forget it. We never even got to 96% 96.5% was as close as we got. It is a real challenge to get the same mix as it changes with the temperature. Some think testing is the answer and I agree but you have to realize no one has run it in different conditions so all year and every weather condition will be new.

 

Good morning Mike. Yeah I've heard you're going to have to mix it less the the 96% (that's why I posted 96"max") because you will get DQ'd at fuel check if you try to run the new "full-load". So afd in the south and or hot climate with bad air could be at a disadvantage to cooler climates, do you think the same? Also, are you gonna play next year in AFD? Warren

 

Not sure yet Warren but I wish we could make our cars run fast as quick as the stroke of a keyboard can make them slow.

 

Hey Michael - Lets go Outlaw racing. It's way more fun, way cheaper, and pays a helluva lot more.. Your neighbor
Savage

 

OK, A first timer here. And a good time to prove to one and all that I don't know squat about what. Given that, here is my very well uninformed take on NITRO.

100% nitro is always 100% nitro, period. Now on any given day at any given nitro temperature as measured w/ a fairly accurate thermometer, as the nitro temp changes, the hydrometer readings will correspondingly change. The colder the nitro, the higher the reading. The warmer the reading, the lower the reading. All such readings measured w/ the aforementioned accurately calibrated hydrometer. Hyd's measure the specific gravity, and the spec grav changes w/ the temp. Ergo, diff readings at diff temps, but all are 100% nitro, Si?

Seems like the rule of thumb is that nitro is right on 100% at about 60 degrees, or there abouts. It then changes about 1% for each 5 degrees of temp change. Like at 50 deg, it would hydro 102%, and at 75 deg hydro 97 deg... Still 100% though.

Hey, it's about 1:40, and at my advanced age I can't remember if its early or late. But it is enough for me to claim Advanced Alshiemers for any mis-speak at the above rantings, and to now Shut Up and go to nappy land...

 

You are correct about temperature changing the reading, but when you add alcohol to nitro it no longer stays 100% nitro period.

 

TT Sr- no different problem than 85% for top fuel etc. why do you think a/fd should be allowed coolers etc.?- Wasn't someone complaining early this year about my fav (Michelle) cooling nitro? It's a problem you solve on your own as opposed to your solution. Just my opinion and no critisism implied.

 

R4K wrote - Wasn't someone complaining early this year about my fav (Michelle) cooling nitro?

Don't you mean Shelly?

Mike - thanks for the FYI report from your weekend. Very interesting.

 

I do- but "mICHELLE" is much prettier!
Good point about the body and heat- I betcha Coil and Fedderly have conversion charts coming out of their ears for various temps! LOL

 

NHRA would call out the swat team at the mention of hydrazine! It like many other adatives were tried many years ago. I personally saw a TF car running against me that poured a cupfull in the tank just before pulling to the starting line and about 1/2 track blew the heads "off" the car and the crank out the bottom. It was banned way back when.
As far as the nitro percentage I don't claim to be a chemical engineer but have had a lot of years running this great fuel. I agree that the hydro. is just a device for measuring the specific gravity of the fuel. Also agree that 100 % is still just that. However the change in density will effect the performance level of the engine. Fuel cars at times in the past would adjust the percent of nitro to tune the engine.
Higher percentage leaner lower to richen or to reduce power. A gallon of nitro is always a gallon but the weight or specefic gravity will change. The higher the specific gravity the more oxygen molocules are in a gallon. If alcohol is added to 100 percent it just lowers the specific
gravity thus less weight per gallon.
It will be a problem for afuel cars maintaining 96 percent. The top fuel guys have their fuel checked before the run and this is the way it should be done as you have no control on what happens after the run as to what will effect the temp. in the tank an elimates any cheating that might occur after the run. NHRA has not said how they will check or where they will do the checks.
One other problem is that not all afuel cars can afford to spend 2500 dollars for a digital hyd. and with the normal hyd. with a float there is room for error as two different people can read the same test and be off 1 to 2 percent. So if they do the checks after the run you not only have two different measurements taken by two diferent people by possibly two different methods
but any change in temp. that might occur. The end result would be that you would not be able to run 96 percent and have a safety factor. I dought if they will have a variable when measured. It probably will be a hot stove rule. "TOUCH IT AND YOU'RE BURNED". Like a lot of rules it is easy to say 96 percent but will be difficult for the racer to accive unless checks are made prior to the run. The right way would be in the pits just prior to pulling to the staging area so you would have time for any adjustments and everyone would be in the same boat as for any changes in temp while waiting to run.
Just my two cents.

 

Nitrohawk is right on about hydrazine. Many ice cream seasons ago I went to Stardust Raceway in L.Vegas w/ the original "Starvin Marvin" Schwartz. Marv was one of the Garlits clan, and if he rubbed two nickels together, he would end up w/ four cents on a good day. He did run hydrazine on a last qual run, approx 2%, and while he/we qualified, the iron 392 was not up to making the first round. Seems like it was stretched a tad in several places on the bottom end. Another 'hottie' was nitrous oxide when the top fuelers tried it. Like the Snake said after killing 3 complete motors qualifying at one race; "I've had all this fun I can stand for one day," or something like that.

About the changes in nitro's specific gravity, and tuning for such, thats what todays crew chief gets the big bucks for nowadays. Must be quite a lot of fun keeping up with the multiple timers for the fuel system, and then the multi timers for clutch application, and the symbiotic relationship between such. Tires, wing angle, engine temp, gpm at the hit, what are these???

This is a spoof of course, and not to be taken seriously but: Hey Mike the gun, does the fuel mixture percentage change when adding alcohol, period??? Thanks for pointing that out to my pointed head. Looks like 'Autodick' did get ya on the right track, or there abouts. Again, this is a jest, not a flame job, lol, grin, etc...

Last but not the least, about NHRA and measuring percentage of nitro at any given track/race venue: My ol country boy approach is simple, (me to,) but since NHRA is in control of who can sell at the track, let NHRA at the head of the staging line, fill the EMPTY tank of each car for that pass. Percentage is guaranteed the same for each car in that session. On the return road drain the rest out of the tank. If NHRA wanted to check for crystal meth salts, or whatever, any cheaters would have a diff time trying to lie their way out of that. Yes, you would pay NHRA for each gallon used, but so what, ya gotta pay for it anyway. Yep, keep a barrel in the trailer to warm up w/, test and tune, etc, but all racers would be running the same percentage at that race. And ya prob could even add more alcohol if ya didn't want to run the NHRA spec mix... Now how was it the Wayne County Speed Shop plumbed the nitrous into the pro stock cars a few years back w/ out getting caught???

OK, please don't knock me off my soap box, I'll fall off soon enough. Or if ya do, I can take the hit, but don't hurt the soap box. I'll need it to make a soap box derby car for my grandson soon as he learns to evade the rules with out getting caught... hotrod's waitinnn, well ducking and running for cover, real fast...