Parity revisited....it's time to factor.

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    133
    After witnessing a barrage of some of the quickest A/Fuel runs in the history of the class, it's safe to say we got some 'data' in the form of Bill Reichert's 5.18 and 5.21, Gunderson's 5.20, Ashley's 5.29, Meyer's 5.29, Gallant's 5.30 on and on, that 98% didn't create a level playing field in the class in good air. What will happen when it gets hot? Anyone's guess is good.

    Taking an educated guess, I'd be willing to say most of the A/Fuelers are going to have some growing pains as it gets hotter trying to figure out running at whatever the percentage may be when they get to that point in the season. Let's take a look at what may be happening.

    Rewind about 5-10 years ago when the A/Fuelers really started coming on strong. The better the air, the more of a science fiction number you would expect out of the A/Fuelers. As A/Fuel technology progressed, they became less dependent on the good air conditions, and started running big numbers in 'decent' air. It kept progressing to what you have seen in the past two seasons where guys like Randy Meyer can run 5.21 in Seattle (Bradshaw driving) when the fuel cars can't even make it down the track, and then runs a 5.29 in Scribner. At the same time, when the air got really, really good, you just didn't see as many super numbers out of the A/Fuelers. Every now and then one would step up and put a big number up, but rather than run the kill the world et in good air, they would just run bracket like 5.20's and .30's.

    What I'm getting at is over the past few years, when the air got like what we've seen at Gainesville this year, they made so much power at 100%, they really had to back them down to make it down the track. Apparently in good air, it's knocked some of the edge off to where it's more manageable.

    Many of the top teams that ran the big numbers in Gainesville didn't change much from last year's tune-up to this year. So the argument it takes a completely different tuneup for the 98 deal is a moot point.

    It's really hard to predict what will happen when it gets hot. Some of the very people that said earlier this year you won't see teens and low twenties again ripped them off this past weekend. So keep that in mind when considering the argument that these cars will flat out not run when it gets hot.

    If NHRA really wants to reach true equality in the class, they need to factor the nitro percentage based on the altitude of the track. Temperature is too much of an unpredicable variable to base a factor off of.

    Despite not having experience factoring tracks with nitro cars, they do have quite a bit of experience with other classes, not to mention data to look at from the A/Fuelers over the past few seasons at different tracks.

    With this in mind, the sea level tracks need to be somewhere closer to 97% to 97.3% Then a gradual scale up on nitro as track elevation increases.

    The only problem that may rise with factoring strictly off elevation is it appears that the A/Fuelers are more sensitive to ambient temperature than altitude. If there is enough data, a correction factor may be able to be attained by a five year average of corrected altitude.

    I think at the present, the most realistic way to factor the tracks is altitude.

    Why change? Why not just leave it alone. Three reasons are 5.18, 5.20 and 5.21. The technology just isn't there for a blown car to run that fast. Not to discredit Ken Perry or Guy Kelly, but 5.350 wasn't the threshold of performance in the conditions. Without hard run data, what 'coulda been' run is nothing more than pure speculation. It's safe to say 5.18 wasn't gonna happen if you ran Santos on his best day off a cliff, despite what some of the armchair crew chiefs out there think.

    If you change to a static percent, hit the A/Fuel cars now, they may be hurt pretty bad in the hot months. So then what happens is the good weather races become all A/Fuel races and the summer months become all blown cars. Our car counts have been on the rise the past few years, we don't need a decline.

    I think altitude factoring may be a popular move on both sides. It also sends a signal to BOTH sides that NHRA is being proactive at trying to maintain parity on both sides. If it's tilted in one way or the other, make it right.

    The season started off kind of like getting back together with that old girlfriend. You really want it to work, and at first you have a good feeling about it, then quickly it goes to hell again. If NHRA doesn't come up with something proactive, we'll have a long season of talking parity again on here.

    Let's factor the tracks, and if it isn't perfect this year, correct it for next year. I think the majority of the class would rather take one year to try to keep it equal than be stuck with a system that may cause extreme swings in parity from one combination to the next. -WH
     
    #1
  2. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will it is way to early to start with all this parity talk and how to acheive it. Gainsville was one race. Has everyone forgot about Pomona. The problem is that at this race under close to ideal conditions which might favor the fuel cars slightly you had what is probably the fastest fuel cars in existence there. This is not meant to degrade anyone but you did not have the fastest or quickest blown cars present. What do you think it would have looked like if Shields was still running, as well as Federlin, Wells, Will, Santos, or any of the blown cars that have run in the low 30's and 20's. Do you think it might have been a litter closer qualifying? Now I know I have left someone out so don't get mad at me. But correct me if I am wrong in the belief that There have been and still is some bad's out there that with the altitude and track conditions could have had all time best et's. I think dean had the best idea. He said if you are going to factor and take fuel away from the nitro caars at good evelations then you should take the blower od from the blown cars at higher altitudes. My personal openion is that it will never happen because it is to much trouble for NHRA to monitor and police. I can see it now after every run you go through a tech inpection or fuel check desided by the altitude. This is getting way out of hand. Just hit the fuel cars with another 50 lbs. and forget all this factoring. I can here the reply to this now. They tried that before but I tell you that physics doesn't lie. If the cars were lighter they would run faster. If you don't think so then get your formula out for figuring the hp required to run a certain mph with a given weight. No one would have a problem burning the fuel and loading the motor if they were a 100 lbs. lighter. What is going to happen is somone is going to win a national event and get disqualified because the fuel was two tenths to high. Houston is in two weeks and once again all the bad ass a-fuel cars will be present I bet. Just hope the same holds true for the blown cars so there can be a better comparison. Look what Manzo ran at Gainsville in a funny car. That was impressive. I think Branch also ran a best for him. Give it some time.
     
    #2
  3. Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    1
    Very well said Will. I think factoring could definitely be a viable "solution" to the parity issue.

    Yes, Gainesville was just one race, but so was Pomona- two completely opposite results. I would think that the aim is to have parity at every race, not just to switch off every other weekend.

    The way I would go about "tuning" this would be the same way we approach tuning our race car- one change at a time. Beware, the next sentence is bound to be a little bit run-on. Just the same as you would shake your brains out if you took too much fuel away and added too much clutch between rounds without taking smaller steps, NHRA would be potentially counterproductive if they made a change to both types of cars at once and not knowing the consequences beforehand.

    Like Will said, it's something that if they decide to factor the tracks will take a little time to tweak to make it just right.
     
    #3
  4. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    133
    bob,

    what if reichert, gunderson and gallant were out in pomona? not to take anything away from darien & meadows but they don't usually set the a/fuel pace. they're always right there, and they go rounds because they're probably the most consistent team out there. i don't remember the corrected alt's in pomona on saturday evening, but i do remember i bummed a sweatshirt off doug gordon. i think you would have seen a 5.20 out of one of those a/fuelers.

    was reichert's 5.18 as bad ass as it was, the perfect a/fuel run? if you say yes, that's even more of an accomplishment since that was his third pass on 98%. keep that in mind when comparing to what if super blown car was there to make the perfect run.

    the problem with both of our arguments is the what if's. i have stated since last year that there are too many variables with both combinations for one rule change to maintain parity throughout the year. i think gainesville reiterates my point.

    as far as slowing the blower cars down some when it heats up, i'd support it to an extent. i think the more popular move among both ranks is to simply give the nitro cars more percentage at the altitude tracks. i don't think too many a/fuelers would complain, and if you start taking od away from the blown cars, we know all too well from tafc what happens when you do that: more rpm's. then you have denver...yeah, its hard as hell for an a/fueler to compete there. but if you make that race 92 od for the blown cars, then that race becomes such an odd ball combination as it is, you throw that in, and nobody would mess with it. maybe they should 'wild card' that race to compensate for the fact a/fuelers can't compete.

    as far as being too early in the year to cry parity, well, if this summer is going to be as bad as many a/fuel guys say, if nhra factors some of these races with more nitro, then the a/fuelers win.

    many people label me as a 'blown whiner'. i like blown cars, i like a/fuel cars. i really like tad. i really do want to see both combo's succeed. i think the factoring system may bring us back together.

    i have a dream that blown racers and a/fuel racers can walk side by side.... :D
     
    #4
  5. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    133
    quick poll: how many a/fuel racers would trade a percent now for one back in the summer. race on 97 now to get 99 in the summer?

    as far as factoring goes here's an even simpler system:

    jan 1- may 15: 97%
    may 15-sep 15: 99%
    sep 15-dec 31: 97%
     
    #5
  6. The Zone

    The Zone Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    683
    Likes Received:
    1
    Will's last idae is a pretty good one, but high elevation tracks are still a problem.
    In Division 6 Billings is the one tough track to manage. Unforutaely as well, High eleavations track have a short window for holding races because of weather. Sotheir race is in the Summer. The corrected air for their event in August is usually 6000ft plus. It was 7500 Last year. Mitch Myers with arguably the best tuner there is actually went there last year and had 100% in the tank that teams best was 3/10ths slower than the top few BAD's. Div 5's Denver and Douglas are similar, as are Div 7's Salt Lake and Tucson. There are a couple other Div tracks that with high humidity and temps that the air is well over 4500 corrected I would say at least ten divisional events need something for the A/Fuelers to be competitive. And 100% last year was not enough. That is why OD should be considered for the BAD's. Rev's with likely not be a factor anymore by dropping the OD as I think most top teams are already revving their rides to the maximum (breaking point) already.
    THe big thing is, what is fair for not is fair for the other.

    I STAND BY THE NOTION IT CAN BE MANAGED IF THE NHRA WANTS TO MAKE THE EFFORT TO MANAGE IT. LEN AND THE RULES GUYS IT IS UP TO YOU, DO THE RIGHT THING

    Yes, the caps were on purpose.

    Dean
     
    #6
  7. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm sorry but the problem is we can sit here and MICRO MANAGE this parity problem but in reality all this chatter this early in the season is just going to drive NHRA crazy and futher in the direction I personaly think they are headed anyway and that is the promotion of the promod class and the elimination or TAD. This is just to much of a management head ache and would require a lot of attention to enforce. I will not take up anymore of this website's space with responces to this subject. Not trying to be coy here just am tired of it all. I have as much of a stake as anyone in the TAD rules but am to point that I think I will just sit on the sidelines and whatever happens jut happens.
    Bob Holley
     
    #7
  8. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does anybody think NHRA will ever allow different Nitro%'s for every track? They won't put up with the Hassle of it all. What's next, allowing the Gizmo at Sea-level tracks? Talk about Pandoras box!
     
    #8

Share This Page