On-board primer?

Ok;

So as we all know, it's tough to find good crew members. People who listen and learn on a fast basis. More importantly, people who can tell what is lean and what is fat on the fuel priming.

When strapped in, there's not much you can do other than flip the butterflies open if you know they didn't put enough gas in. It's hard to stop them from putting in too much.

So, I've been contemplating an on board priming system that I can control.

Just something simple, like pulling fuel off of a return line that's going into the bottom of the pump, fed with an el-cheapo solid state pump, and a priming nozzle in the distribution block.

My biggest concern is this, and this is where I'm needing some advice.

I've always primed the system with 87 octane gas. Lights quick and I've never had extended issues with the system priming.

Can I prime the system on alky, or will it not have enough BTU to get a cold engine started?

 

priming

I have seen people do what you are talking about as far as the alk on a cold day it depends on how cold I have seen a couple of fuel boats that use a 16 oz tire slime bottle and run a tube down in it and mark it so they know how much to put in it between rounds the poke a hole above the fuel level and plumb it into the hat and when they start cranking the blower sucks it in and when it runs out you are done and what you have then is a controlled vacuum leak you may need to adjust the blades in the hat some to compensate for the leak and this way you can add anything you want

 

WJ sent you a PM.

 

Primer

It Will Start On Straight Alky As Long As Its Not Colder Than 60 Degrees. Seen It Done With A Small Pump And A Extra Nozzle

 

Darren sent me his setup, which sounds like it works well.

http://www.rbssuperchargers.com/Store_Detail.cfm?ID=139938&InfoID=3921

I use a -12 to -12 fitting as linked above from RBS on my fuel pump inlet.

I think I'll just pull the fuel from there with an electric pump, and use the primer ball check nozzle (http://www.rbssuperchargers.com/Store_Detail.cfm?ID=144356&InfoID=3921) in the distribution block.

Almost sounds too simple to work, doesn't it? I was kind of thinking 60F was around the magic number too. I remember having a hell of a time starting N/A alky motors with carbs around that temperature.

It'll sure be nice not having to worry about crew members spilling gas all down the front of the motor anymore.

 

We run essentially the same setup on our car. On cold days we start it on gas in the pits and never have a problem in the staging lanes.

 

On our Top Alcohol boat we use a Holley Blue pump and a small Jaz 1/2 gallon tank. We have 1 nozzle towards the back of the hat with no nozzle in it and a small braided line to the pump. We have it all wired up to a toggle switch on the steering wheel, when I am ready to fire it up I hold the switch down to a count of 3 and then hit the starter and she fires right up. We just use generator gas in the Jaz bottle. Cheap and easy.

 

WJ,
I used a setup like this on an old jet boat that had twin side tanks that were lower than the injector pump (straight port injector). Plumbed the electric pump line with a T fitting straight into the main line between pump and barrell valve, used a starter button to prime the system. That way all or at least most of the air is purged out of the main line and individual nozzle lines, takes a few tries to figure how long to hold the pump on, usually about a 2 count. Once I got that figured, never had any more starting problems. Just be sure you have a good one-way check valve between the electric pump and injector pump or good-by electric pump. I actually used an old Hilborn jet can with a soft spring for the check valve, worked great.

 

Primer

I Was Cranking My Car Once, About 57 Degrees I Guess....didnt Feel That Cold, Started Scratching My Head Until I Looked At The Temp.... A Little Gas..... Fire In The Hole!

 

Gas is for washing parts and 2 strokes.I prime my deal with alcohol and a little electric pump.I welded in a bung on the bottom of the fuel tank and routed a ss braided line to the middle of the injector.I hold the button on the steering wheel until it lights and let off.Never had a problem.

 

Greg,
How many times have you boat raced below 60 degrees...........Hard to find good ramp people when its that cold...................

 

I have started it at a Christmas parade when it was about 35* and it still lit right up.I do understand why it would be a lot harder to get it to start and yes gas will fix the problem.I guess it depends on how good your blower is,type of ignition system and,compression ratio.My motor is 12.1 without boost and I have a mag 20 and a 1471 hh.
i just like that old saying "gas is for washing parts and 2 strokes".
Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

Engine Primer

I am absolutely new to running alcohol and also new to responding in this forum. Please forgive me if I have repeated something that was already discussed here earlier. I am truly impressed with the information that comes out of these discussions!
When I first started setting my motor up, the first thing that I heard was, "It won't start unless you inject gasoline into it". (I have a 408 CI SBC, 8-71 blower, Birdhat and running straight Methanol).
The truck that I was modifying had a three gallon tank in the bed to cover the additional fuel needed to run a 250 HP shot of Nitrous.
All I did when I changed everything over from nitrous to blower was, run the old nitrous plate line to the rear distribution block on the injector. I hooked up a switch that controlled the existing electric fuel pump and found that a 1 to 1-1/2 second burst of the fuel pump was more than enough to get the engine started.
I know this sounds like a very simple "priming system", but simple is exactly what I was trying to accomplish, and it worked. Since installing this I have found that running in Florida, it really doesn't get cold enough to need a priming system. Firing up on straight alcohol works in this temperature. My "mentors" told me wrong.
My point being, ..... if Alcohol is hard to get started in cold weather, why would we want to use alcohol as a starting / priming agent?
Please respond and let me know, ...... "Baker, you're a dummy, and this is why".
Thanks for your input. This is a great place!

 

primer

I recommendn a small tank of gas, I run about one quart tank, and a holley pump hooked to a solenoid on the output side of the pump and plumbed to extra nozzles in the hat. The solenoid is need to keep the engine from sucking gas through the system after you start the engine. The solenoid and pump can be wired to the same switch so the solenoid operates everytime you run the pump. If you have any questions feel free to contact me. Chuck!

 

Baker

It all has to do with the flash point standard pump gas has a much lower flash point (-45F) than methonal (52F) thus making it easier to ignite.

Gasoline is the prefered priming fluid in most every TF, and Alcohol team that I have been part of and/or am familiar with

 

start-up

seems like a lot of work to self prime. teach the monkey to squeeze the bottle right. its the owner/drivers responsibility. Ive taught alot of guys, biggest problem is getting them to believe they are safe from a back fire.
in the pits let somebody sit in the car while you help them start it. a 50/50 mix helps control the flooding. once the engine is warm, alcohol will work. also check out an article at dragparts.com its written to help you teach somebody to understand fat, lean, etc. now where is that my2cts sign

 

Mark, is this the article?

http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Starting_a_Blown_Alky_Motor.htm

EDB

 

Safe priming

Give the newbee crew person a small bottle and they can not overprime it.
Available at camping supply stores with a flip up tip so it will not leak.
Buy a half dozen or more clear ones about $1.50 each fill em up one bottle = one prime with a good squeeze. Goof proof.
They fit in a pocket so if you lose fire a quick squirt and you are ready to go again with out delaying the run for onboard starter cars.

Of the rest of the suggestions for starting with out a crew person I liked the N2O solenoids and nozzel the best. For SAFETY it would work wonders with a small camping type propane tank from the camping supply store and the hose from the propane barbaque or stove to connect it. A big plus is it would not color your plugs and be SAFE with a couple of good brackets to hold the tank in place. Light weight too with lots of starts in it look how long one of these little tanks runs that propane stove on a camping trip.

 

may not be the right thought process, but its always worked for us...... most likely we could start her up on alky alone, but we always start her with leaded gas. costs more, but we just like the idea of getting a little lube in the valve seats. everything being so dry with alky, so if there is a chance to get a little lube in there, we do it. its only for a few secs, but better than never we figure. we may just be wasting money on race gas, but it makes us feel all warm and fuzzy inside

 

Rons has a priming system, in a kit.250.00