More Nitro

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by nitrohawk, May 30, 2008.

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  1. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    I guess if the first warm race in TAD of the year is any indication you will see all the same people who were wanting parity asking for more nitro % for the injected cars. At 4000 it should be adjusted to 98%.
     
    #1
    nitrohawk, May 30, 2008
  2. SICTOR

    SICTOR hola amigos!

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    looking at the friday results, yup.......Well I dont see any A Fuel guys complaining on the board
     
    #2
    SICTOR, May 30, 2008
  3. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Right....

    wow, soon as a blown car has a little bit of an advantage, the sky is falling, a/f needs more nitro to maintain their advantage...

    what would reichert, lucas or gallant have run???
     
    #3
    Will Hanna, May 31, 2008
  4. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    What would Santo's or Shields have run????
    Will you are the one that said that the % of nitro needed to be adjusted for corrected altitude as part of the solution to obtaining parity.
    To the other post: you are right about the a-fuel crowd remaining silent.
    Most anyway.
     
    #4
    nitrohawk, May 31, 2008
  5. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    santos

    i figure santos woulda ran about a 5.33/267. shields probalby about the same...grimes is tuning whiteley and has a damn near unlimited budget and nearly the same crew. don't think he forgot anything since then.

    i never said anything about correcting the nitro % based off corrected alt. i recommended a scale based off of actual altitude or a time period based.

    it is closer this year than it's been in a long time. however, when the a/fuelers can run low .20's and teens in regular to good weather, i have a hard time supporting giving the a/f cars nitro when it heats up.

    when a/fuelers qualify no. 1 by over a tenth week in and week out, if a blown car appears to have an advantage just once in a while, the sky is falling....
     
    #5
    Will Hanna, May 31, 2008
  6. TAD529

    TAD529 Member

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    The sky is falling

    Well put.I hate to hear a grown man cry
     
    #6
    TAD529, Jun 1, 2008
  7. EX-NSP

    EX-NSP New Member

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    parity? in TAD

    All who run Bakersfield ( now that it's run in a hot month) know . . .

    ALKY rules the day, NITRO rules the night!
     
    #7
    EX-NSP, Jun 1, 2008
  8. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    Adjusting the Nitro% to the corrected altitude now??:rolleyes:
     
    #8
    Darren Smith, Jun 1, 2008
  9. larrymiersch

    larrymiersch Member

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    Here we go again.........

    Will,

    Do you really think that the Santos/O'bannon team would only run 30's if they were still around? They ran that many, many years ago. We all know Grimes is talented. However, you forget that Mr. Santos was there also along with most of the Santos family. That combo was almost unbeatable.

    Remember, Manzo consistently improves year over year. He has run .40's. The performance difference between the two blown cars has traditionally been about .3. What should the blown dragsters be running now? Maybe ask Manzo what he thinks.
     
    #9
    larrymiersch, Jun 2, 2008
  10. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    Proof's in the pudding.

    Larry,
    When are you going to buy a blown deal and show us what you're talking about? That's like me saying I think the A-fuel cars would be running 4.90's if Chess Bushey (sp) was still running. Speculation is just that.
    We are limited to the same parts as were back then, and the tune-up was 99% wrung out then. Also, most teams don't have $890,000.00 a year (more with inflation) to spend like Mr. O'Banons. Also, the C blower is recognized more easily these days. I've made runs quicker & faster than Mr. Santos, although I'll never claim to be as good as his team. Mr. Grimes & company were the best ever, in this class.
    Friday and Saturday at Topeka favored the blown combination. Unfortunately, with our current rules the A-fuel combination is favored approiximately 85% of the time. I don't understand how people could enjoy winning, knowing that the other guy wasn't givin a fair chance.
    Have a great day.
    Marty
     
    #10
    310TAD, Jun 2, 2008
  11. Woodchip

    Woodchip Top Alcohol Dragster

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    What type of car won that race again? Seems some guys ain't happy unless they have .07 advantage all year long.
     
    #11
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2008
    Woodchip, Jun 2, 2008
  12. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    blown cars heat and compensation

    it's no secret blown cars can compensate for heat and altitude a little better than an a/f car. every year we see a blown car haul ass in vegas, run mid to low .30's at close to 270, then it's like 'wait until they get to sea level'...

    well cowie ran mid .30's the previous weekend in mission, then compensates for the bad air and runs .30s in Topeka.

    so yeah, i really think santos, meyer, shields, bill walsh, brian raymer, bill barney and others would only have ran low .30's this past weekend....
     
    #12
    Will Hanna, Jun 2, 2008
  13. Pat McGill

    Pat McGill Member

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    It has to be upsetting for some the AFDs to have a distinct advantage over some of field, but still be unable to close the deal.
     
    #13
    Pat McGill, Jun 2, 2008
  14. Pat McGill

    Pat McGill Member

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    McDowell would have been in the low 20's in Topeka; I'm sure of it.

    Wonder what Garlits would have ran this weekend in TF?
     
    #14
    Pat McGill, Jun 2, 2008
  15. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    You going to believe me or your lying eyes

    So far what we are seeing this year is that the blown cars are very competive at cooler and lower altitudes. The a-fuel cars are competetive up to corrected altitudes of about 2700 feet. The blown cars have an advantage when the air gets up to 3000 feet or more and it is fairly warm.
    No way Niver should have won at Topeka. Not that he didn't deserve the win. I think he deserves it more because of how he did it. If you put all those blown cars running in the low 30's at close to 4000' and 90 degrees in ten race situations they would in at least nine.
    Will why not adjusted altitude for % of nitro changes. Everyone knows that what the motor sees is corected altitude.
    It may not make much difference to many racers of a-fuel cars in the future anyway as the 2000 dollar cost of a drum of nitro and the 5.00 cost of diesel will elimate many racers without big sponsors.
    I am looking at a way to crank the car and do burnout on alcohol and only put on nitro before staging. figure this could save about 2 1/2 gallon a run or clost to 100 dollars at current fuel prices. anyone got ideas of how best to do this email me at bobholley33@yahoo.com
     
    #15
    nitrohawk, Jun 2, 2008
  16. WJ Birmingham

    WJ Birmingham New Member

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    From an outsiders stand point, it almost seems like they have mashed two separate classes together.

    But, again, that's from my standpoint, not having a dog in the race.
     
    #16
    WJ Birmingham, Jun 2, 2008
  17. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    WJ,
    You don't have to have a dog in the race to see what is happening.
    You are right about two seperate classes. That would solve most of the problems but will never happen because the measly pennance that NHRA calls a purse will never be doubled to cover two seperate classes.
    And besides the car count might increase and they could never consider that.
     
    #17
    nitrohawk, Jun 2, 2008
  18. WJ Birmingham

    WJ Birmingham New Member

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    Sorry, didn't mean to bring common sense into this. ;)
     
    #18
    WJ Birmingham, Jun 2, 2008
  19. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    adjusted alt

    bob,

    no doubt in a perfect world, you could do something along those lines, however we live in a far from perfect world.

    first nhra would have to invest $15,000 or more on 8 to 10 good weather stations to be 'official' weather stations. basically it leaves too much room for subjectiveness. we all know how different each racer's weather station reads. as far as tuning goes, as long as your weather station is consistent, it doesn't matter if it's dead accurate. but to determine rules for a class, the weather station would have to be accurate and consistent. then you have the debate of where it gets set up. direct sunlight or not?? proper care is essential. let's say one division takes better care of their station than the other, so for a few races or more, one division has a "low" or "high" weather station. i think most racers would rather race by black and white rules instead of a constantly moving target and the accuracy of that moving target would ALWAYS be debated. not to mention determining the point at which you would adjust nitro, blower or whatever.

    my idea a few years back was for nitro % based off actual altitude. yes this isn't as directly correlated as corrected altitude, but actual altitude is black and white. another idea was something along the lines of let's say 95%-94% from Jan 1-May 1, 96%May 1-Sep 1, then back down for remainder of the year. the concept was to give some up in the good air to get some back in the bad air.

    i still think in the big picture the answer lies in untieing the hands of the blown cars rather than continually restricting the a/f cars. until a blown car runs 5.1999 or quicker the point of performance restrictions on blown cars is asinine. C blowers, clutch management, cid, bore spacing, whatever it takes, then restrict the cars after they've actually ran comparable numbers.

    however, nhra's management philosophy seems to be to not speed the class up, so it looks like nitro % will continue to be the 'knob' for the class.

    with the two combinations having their 'sweet' spots, picking and choosing your races still has a lot to do with a potential championship. it's just a lot tougher to hit the road now with diesel.
     
    #19
    Will Hanna, Jun 2, 2008
  20. fuelslut

    fuelslut New Member

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    let the TADs race in Denver, maybe a blown car could pick up a win there.
     
    #20
    fuelslut, Jun 2, 2008
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