Billet Blocks

Who's in the billet block business these days? Thanks.

 

Blocks

C N blocks makes a great product !

 

true billet block

lets not confuse forged blocks,that are then machined and a true billet 6061 block that starts out as a sqaure chunk of billet 6061 material as cn blocks offer.everybody says tfx,bad,kb are billet blocks,but are really forgings not billet!!!

 

The newest player is Dart. Had billet block at PRI.

 

Whoa there boys;
A forging is a chunk of billet that has been pressure smooshed to a given shape. End of story.
All of todays leading producers use the forged process.
Yes, the "Indian" block and the Aussie "Sainty" blocks are produced from billet stock in bolt together form.

 

Bob read your E mail

 

my question is if CN blocks are cnc'ed from a solid square chunk of 6061 billet,and every part of those blocks are machined.then why do the tfx,bae,kb blocks have smooth valley areas as a casting or forging would and does have? just asking for clarity on the discussion of the two different ways that we end up with what you call a billet block?

 

A billet has every feature machined to shape, a forging has a rough shape that can be either finished machined or left as forged.

Billets are not made from forgings, they are made from large pieces of raw stock so billets are not as strong as forgings.

 

but these are billet square chunks of 6061 that are then machined into a block,not just a chunk of 6061 aluminum,so if the material is made into a billet chunk before the machining process,then the density of the material quality is already there before machining,isn't it? and when you say 6061,does that designation mean it is a billet material already ? or is that just the grade of aluminum.

 

Great Posting I Say Bob Meyer Hit The Nail On The Head Tfx,bae Are A Piece Of Billet That Is Smashed Into Submission And Made Into A Forging Then Machined Into A Block. I Believe Kb Has Done Something Of A Investment Casting But The Term May Be Different It Is A Casting But Accepted By Nhra I Think But Not Sure. So Now We Need A Smart Metal Guy Because I Believe The Forging To Be Stronger Than The Billet As Grain Structure Is Stronger And The Metal Is Denser. I'm Sure There Is A More Scientific Way Of Explaining.and Yes Cn Is Making Out Of A Chunk Of Billet.

 

To make special size billets, an ingot is poured to the size necessary, the same way other materials are created. A billet has the grain flow that is "as-poured", non-directional, and can have pockets of gases trapped causing voids in the material.

If you forge a chunk of metal, it becomes a forging. The forging refines the grain flow and improves the physical properties. The forging process tends to create surface imperfections that could eventually lead to cracks.

An investment casting is no stronger than a regular casting, but, it more accurately conforms to its required shape. It is often used in complex shapes such as turbine blades where machining would not be cost-effective.

 

Gotta go with Paul on this one- forged is stronger than billet (cast) due to the direction of molecules- ex- cast vs forged crank. I believe most forgings are directional and often the directional is caused by a pressure forged process. This was explained to me by a metalurgist and is likely losing in my translation. I think we all remember "power forged" pistons???

 

Aluminum Billets are not cast, they are pressure sized (extruded, rolled or pressed) shapes that are made from a cast bar or ingot. This is the same process as a forging however the grain in a billet pieces is uni-directional and the grain in a true forging is multi-directional. In both instances the intersticials in the material are greatly reduced due to the processing. A typical casting is done at atmospheric pressure and can have voids and gas pockets, however high pressure casting (like the process Honda uses) eliminates the voids and gas pockets.

 

Guys, Chris and Chuck Nytten at CN Blocks and Alan Johnson are the only 2 makers of true billet blocks on the market right now! Chris starts out with a 850lb piece of billet aluminum, that he buys in bulk, straight from Alcoa. Everything except for the sleeves and Cam bearings are completely machined on one of his 2 Haas, 5 axis CNC machines. Its a 12 hour process, before the sleeves are installed. BAE, and KB ARE NOT true billet blocks! They are forged. The forged blocks are not as strong as the Billet CN or AJ Fuel stuff. I heard it from a pretty damn good fuel tuner and engine developer named Alan Johnson. This subject was brought up at the CN booth at PRI with Chris, Chuck, and Alan, all talking to one another. NHRA considers Brads forged block to be billet. NHRA doesn't know shit when it comes to forging and billet processes. Alan actually thinks its kinda funny. I guess its like NHRA thinking their gonna hurt him bad with their Rev Limiters. And as far as the Dart piece, did any of you guys notice what poor quality that thing was? Oh one other thing! I saw that someone said a forged piece is always stronger than the billet piece. Does that mean that everyone with billet cranks should switch over to a forged crank???????????????????????????

P.S. Les Mellows is one of the most underated alcohol guys out there!! Les-YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!

 

The TFX blocks are not pounded in the same since as a true forging
They are pressed into the shape to remove/cut down on some of the machine time
Are the grain structures the same on a billet versus a forged piece...NO
Is the billet stronger than a forged piece...NO
Depending on the way you apply the stresses to the materials, heat treating,
Cooling during manufacturing/grades determines which to use for what
But then they are not “Forging” any of the blocks only pressing a shape change
This is my take on it after getting one of the last Rodeck TFX’s before Alan bought them