Another Welding Question?

I am getting ready to update my chassis and I am intrested in everyone's opion on this.
I have always used an OxWeld #65 for chassis work, but I know of people who swear by using a stainless #312 rod or a 4130 rod.
Whats your opion on this?

Thanks for the space Will & a great website.

Bob Kraemer

 

(ER 70s-3) Used it on our second car we built and it holds up much better. BUT ITS THE HEAT AFFECTED ZONE thats the problem down the road no matter what wire you use!

 

Bob,
All the research I have done says this. ER70S-2 or I think ER80SD2. ER70S-2 is sometimes called -65 or oxweld 65 or something like that. 4130 rod will be too brittle. I have been told the stainless rod works great. I have not tried it. Not sure about tensil on the stainless. Don't over heat the metal. Around 70 amps on .058 1/16th tungston. I always use ER70S-2.

 

For many years this has been debated. Let me just say that I've heard of people using almost every alloy of stainless rod there is. All of which do not blend well with 4130 except #502, but it tends to weld dirty looking. All the others can look beautiful (and that's why some people use it), but it's dangerous!
Union Carbide sold the name Oxweld to ESAB and it is not easy to find anymore. The problem with ER70S is the spec. apparently has changed to "single" instead of "triple" deoxified, meaning some manufacturers rod will weld different, but will still make a quality weld. The ER80D2 spec. IS for triple deoxified, and is what I now use.
The object is to get good penetration with longer "heat draw" to stay away from "tiny" weld embrittlement. I use 3/32" (2%)on .049 and thicker. I do use 1/16" on my .035 gas pedals.
Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for all of the help guys.
I have some Oxweld 65 rod that I bought years ago but I think I will buy some new rods for this project and use the other rod for general welding in the shop.
Bob is rod # ER80D2 from ESAB also?

Thanks again for the help!!!

Bob Kraemer

 

Bob is correct, we have used the 80 series fillers for years and it IS the best! Call Patrick at www.millerweldsupply.com for this and tell him I sent ya. Thanks Tim Stevens

 

Bob Meyer or anyone else

Question for you?

What do you mean by with (longer "heat draw" to stay away from "tiny" weld embrittlement.) I understand the part about good pentration, but don't understand the other parts.
Don't mean to sound stupid, I bought a Tig welder 15 years ago and taught myself how to weld along with asking a lot of questions & help.
I've probably seen or done it, just didn't know what it was or called

Thanks again for all the help!!!!
Bob Kraemer

 

Another question for Bob Meyer or any other chassis builders: Do you use a foot control and regulate the heat by sight and feel or set the amperage at the machine? I have always used foot control but some of the places on this new F/C chassis I'm building are hard to get a comfortable foot position.

Thanks for any help

Greg

 

Greg
When I built a F/C chassis for my cousin to use in an alterd bracket car, we tacked welded the chassis together and welded as much as possible on the jig. We removed it from the jig & put it on metal saw horses I built & finished welding it that way.
I always used the foot control and sometimes you have to have a helper push on the foot control for you. When the car was on the jig or saw horses I used a roll around chair as much as possible so it was easier to move around & be comfortable.
Hope this helps

Bob Kraemer

 

Bob; the method I'm refering to boils down to a wider weld with superior penitration that you can see the heat draw color line maybe a good 3/8" to 1/2" back from the edge of the weld. This process basically slow cools over a larger area to self anneal itself. In some schools of thought, using tiny gold looking welds would leave a heat draw line only about 1/16"-1/8" back. After lots of breakage because of brittleness, some would grab the rosebud and heat the livin' crap out of the joints to relieve the stress. Some still do this.

The style I use was pioneered by Don Long and takes some practice to get used to. Other than myself, Dave Uyehara, Al Swindahl, and a few others figured out the benefits. It takes patience, and is faster, but still needs to be controled so as to not turn the metal to ashes with burned carbon as some do while trying to match this style.

G. Martin; Of course the foot pedal is by far the best, having started in the early 60's when you had to kidnap somebody to sit in front of the welder to change the heat for you. I always use the sight method now, as I found the feel method was a little too painful...

 

Thanks Bob
Thats what I thought you meant but wasn't sure.
Being self taught I always don't know the lingo used or haven't heard it called that before.
Thats the way my welds usually look with the heat draw line although I am sure it was by accident and not on purpose. But I will make sure I do it purpose from now on.
From what I understand the only true way to stress relieve parts is to heat them in a temp controlled vacum chamber slowly bring them to 1250deg. remain at that temp for x amount of time & slowly bring back to room temp.
I have no idea if this is true or not just what I read in an aircraft welding book.
To add a funny note to this: Are you giving up welding to become a comedian?

Thanks Guys I appreciate all of the help & advice!
Bob Kraemer

 

Bob; I can't quit welding yet until I do at least the three more cars on order and then the all titanium shopping cart that I need for my retirement. I figure I'll be able to push at least 10 lbs. more cans with it!

 

Is wrapping the finished weld in a fire proof blanket of any use, I was told it would aid in the slow cool down for a better anneal or is this an old and discarded technique?

 

Ray,

The method of wrapping with fire blanket or k-wool is a very effective and efficient way for cool down.It works well and it's alot cheaper that getting a stress relief company to come in and bake it. Good Luck !

 

Hey Bob
Is that beer cans or clutch cans you are going to put in that all titanium shopping cart?

Take Care
Bob Kraemer

 

I have been heating the tubing up with one of those hand held hardware store propane torches to about 200* back 2-3 inches (before welding) seems to help eliminate those tiny cracks that sometimes appear and the tubing cools slower. It only takes a minute to do. Is this wrong, or hurting anything? Also Bickel told me that they started useing ER70S2 and like it alot better than the 80.I think he said it was cracking after the car was in service. That was a year ago. Maybe they use 80 now because of the spec change. What does the triple deoxidized rod do that the single doesn't? Thanks.

 

Mr Meyer, I did not know there was a deposit for Ensure....That is the cans you were referring to for your shopping cart, Eh??? Perhaps you could talk Eldon P into making you a nice sign with a Logo to add to your cart........Happy Trails, Your friend in Oregon......................!

 

Bob M. you should have saved about 6 inches of every rod you have burned, sell them and you could afford to put you a nice top fuel team together!!! Have a good day
Bob Holley

 

Does anyone have any comments about my question above? I am just starting out welding C/M(door cars)and don't want to pick up bad habits.You guys sound like you have a great deal of experience, I would love to hear more about this subject of how to avoid cracking. Thanks

 

Try asking MR TIG at tigdepot.com see what he says about your questions. I am going to check with a friend of mine who has a welding training business. I will let you know what I find out from him.
Rusty Kramer