All Blown final... Are you happy now?

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by Doug Watt, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. Doug Watt

    Doug Watt AFD

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, There shouldn't be any whining now... 5.30's seems to be the benchmark, Hum weren't we running 5.30's 8 years ago... going backwards to do forwards!

    Doug
     
    #1
  2. therealspeedster

    therealspeedster Jr. Dragster

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    dont worry the a/fuel cars will sneak back up on it!
    then when they do (slap) they will get another rule change! i sure wish there was a fix to all this but i dont see how? its like racing donkeys in a horse race it just dont work. i like both types of cars i just hope this stuff dont kill the class!
     
    #2
  3. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    133
    damn, the sky is falling, its the end of the world....

    i'm pretty confident the a/fuelers will be able to be competitive this year. once boggs/hopewell get shields car to hook up, look out. force has had races before where they had a good car, but not a low et car. same can be said for olvarez in the ex lucas car.

    gunderson has ran .40 at 96.5% he'll be at both gville races with his car. myers is done, and we havent seen reichert, meyer, or howard. supposedly mercier bought gallant's car turn key, and gallant will bring out his other car, so those are two to watch as well.

    from talking to several higher ups in nhra, they are looking for equality, which works in both ways. if indeed i am wrong and the a/fuelers are at a disadvantage this year, i look for nhra to give back some nitro.

    it will take a year to gather the data, but i think this year may support my recommendation last year at the tara meeting in indy, the answer to parity year round may be 'factoring' tracks with nitro %. so lets say 98 is the magic number at good tracks/good air, give 99 at x static altitude and full can at a higher alt.

    if nhra is indeed taking a proactive attitude to install parity, this is great news for the class. as long as it works to both parties favor. i dont think you are going to see lower than 98 happen, at least not for a couple of years.

    the major disadvantage the a/fuelers face now is a lack of runs at 98%. i look for it to be a short term problem for the long term better of the class.

    [ February 14, 2005, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Will Hanna ]
     
    #3
  4. tjenna

    tjenna Top Alcohol

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    682
    Likes Received:
    0
    Happy to see that if you come with a blown car or A-fuel deal you have a chnace of setting low et.

    Todd
     
    #4
  5. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is something going on here that is over my head. Will how do you get 99% of nitro out of a barrel of 98% at temp. of 60 degrees or better.
    Unless somebody is buying nitro at a different place than I it is 98% at 60 degrees from VP or anyone else. The only way you get a specefic gravity reading of above 98% is at a colder temp. than 60 degrees. Now lets say it was 65 degrees at Pomona. What do you think the fuel cars were running? I can tell you it was just a tad under 98%. The same as was run last year. Why the performance was down is a mystery to me as fuel cars were running 5.22 there four years ago on the same out of the drum fuel as now. You have no way to factor it for altitude as higher altitude almost always means temps over 60 degrees and you have nothing to add to the fuel if below 98% to bring it up. Now I might have been out to lunch all these years of running nitro but if I am would someone please clear me up on this as I am in dior need of help!!!!!
     
    #5
  6. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way Shelly made two test runs at Houston on Saturday. Best was 5.54 @ 260. The corrected altitude was near sea level and was about 55 degrees.
     
    #6
  7. Hokes Racing

    Hokes Racing Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    So your telling me that they are running the same % as when they ran 5.22


    Lanny
     
    #7
  8. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    133
    we tested our drum before we started cutting it at like 64 degrees 99.5 or .6.

    with a temp in the low 60s 10 oz of alcohol would give me 98.3 to 98.5 with 11 oz, i was hitting 98.0 on the money. this was measuring with collins digital hydrometer, the same unit that tested the fuel after a run.
     
    #8
  9. rpmhiperf

    rpmhiperf Blown Alcohol

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the differance is that the instruments are calibrated to a "pure" drum of fuel or a known (by the fuel manufacturer) value. That drum is less than 100% nitro as manufactured. So the 98% is relative to the calibration drum or the "pure" value. So in other words the "98%" might only be 96% of 100% pure nitro. :D
     
    #9
  10. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    Like I said there is something going on here that is over my head. All drums of VP that I have bought in the past were 98% at the 68 degree temp.
    On my Enderle Hydrometer it read 98% at this temp.
    Anything colder it would go up. Anything hotter it would go down. If you are allowed to run 98% and the temp was greater than 68 degrees there was nothing you could do to get it back to 98% except to chill the fuel like Conway did last year. I understand that there is nothing in the rules that says you can't do that when you get into the summer just can't cool it while in the car. Now I understand that NHRA might be working with a different calibration on their meters than your Enderle hydrometer so it gets more confusing all the time.
     
    #10
  11. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't want to wear my welcome out here but what is NHRA going to do when it is 95 degrees and the nitro in the drum reads 95-96%. They going to tell you that it might not work as well but if it were 68 degrees it would be 98%. The engine tuneup is based on the specefic gravity of the fuel which also represents the percent of oxygen contained in a gallon. 95 will not perform as good as 98 at any temp. Now if VP would sell you 100% pure nitro at 68 degrees you could keep the nitro percentage the same under varing temp. conditions. There would still be a performance disavantage because of the increased altitude at higher temps.
     
    #11
  12. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    133
    my guess its a difference in temp reading between the hydrometers. i used a old style hydrometer to mix my first batch and it showed like 98.1 or so and on collins digital, it showed 97.5.

    if you have an older hydrometer set up, something may be out of calibration.

    the corrected nitro '60 degree' scale is a relative scale at a particular temperature, measured at that instant.

    so if you mix the nitro at 98 back at the pit at 60 deg, and by the time you go run your fuel temp is 70, that does not mean your nitro is less %. it will read a different specific gravity at 70, but the chart will give you a corrected value that will be 98% at 70 degrees. it is still 98% nitro/alcohol mixture. if you chill your fuel, it does not mean it will be more than 98% either.

    in other words, as temperature changes, so does the specific gravity of the 98% mixture. the conversion chart has the readings for each temp. its not the percentage of the fuel changing, its the specific gravity.

    someone correct me if i'm wrong, this is just my best understanding of the nitro mixing/measuring process.
     
    #12
  13. Doug Watt

    Doug Watt AFD

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will,

    We all are going to have a problem... We tested 97.8% before the run in the lanes on Collin's hydro, and at the other end in fuel check it was 98%. This is going to be a big problem, because:

    1. temp changes

    2. hydro differances

    3. the guy reading it.

    My sugestion is to measure it in the lanes and put a seal on the tank. This will also speed up the turn arround time.

    I hope this gets straighten out before someone gets DQed.

    Doug
     
    #13
  14. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    If anyone can figure out 98%, it's Jerry Darien. I wouldn't be suprised if Ashley is in the 20's by Houston.
     
    #14
  15. RockBottom

    RockBottom Jr. Dragster

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2004
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Looks like A. Gallant has it figured out 5.28 @ 265.
     
    #15
  16. Lee Callaway

    Lee Callaway The Gov

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    the 98 % didnt do much hurt the best a/f et at winter nat 04 .36 .37 05 nats best a/f et gainesville 04 .34 05 .28 did gallant or reichert test already on 98%
     
    #16
  17. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    0
  18. Doug Watt

    Doug Watt AFD

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    >the 98 % didnt do much hurt the best a/f et at winter nat 04 .36 .37 05 nats best a/f et gainesville 04 .34 05 .28<


    Does anyone know how good the air is?
     
    #18
  19. Woodchip

    Woodchip Top Alcohol Dragster

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    For the first session (Gallant sat out the second session) the conditions were
    3:29 p.m. Weather conditions: air temperature 62 degrees, relative humidity 80 percent, barometer 29.91 inches, adjusted altitude 415 feet, track temperature 77 degrees.
     
    #19
  20. Doug Watt

    Doug Watt AFD

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    adjusted altitude 415 feet<

    It won't get any better than that... Just wait when the dog days of summer come arround... there won't be any 20's than.
     
    #20

Share This Page