No more A Fuel cars in Vegas

it's not that easy to bring a 5 gallon jug of 93.7% back to 95.7%. plus if you are chilling fuel you would need a full time guy just to keep track.
i never thought i'd say this, but just run them to 1000ft and be done with it.
it sure is better than using a crank up just for one race.

 

clarification

Will you are correct, you didn't mention parts, it was Dean.

The parts that are getting hurt the most are HEADS, I have seen as many as a set on each run from some. The valves are halving about a quarter their usual life. Rods being kicked out, rear ends broken, one race had three different teams breaking wings, (from under power shake) This is just the visual. I have seen my bearings go from no push to huge pushes (causing more rod changes for safety)

I know what is being changed to compensate for the loss of power, and it is causing ALOT more stress on the parts.

Duane

 

new vs old

just a quick side bar, if it came down to choosing just one class what would it be? A Fuel or Blown? the A Fuel class has evolved so much, not favoring A Fuel but they are always improving, and getting penalized alot more.

 

I wonder what Chess Bushey and Gene Adams would say about all this?

I remember when the guys couldn't get the injected nitro cars to fire on six, much less eight cyl. The A/Fuel class has come A LONG WAY. The 'problem' is that there will NEVER be a happy medium. The 'HAIRDRYERS' will argue when and if the nitro percentage is increased to 95-96%. The A/Fuel guys will be pissed if the blown cars are given a weight break. It's a vicious cycle to where there is no end....EVER!

A question for the A/Fuel Community here:

If NHRA allowed the 96% nitro back in the tanks, but added weight to the cars, would this help with the apparent parts breakage that you guys are suffering with the lower %?

Tim Charlet
Charlet Motorsports Marketing

 

What a crybaby! Originally Posted by Izzy
Will, I want to personally thank you for lobbying to get the new overdrive. I know you worked hard on getting this done and trying to help keep parity. You are one of the few people that lobbied to get this done without anything to gain for yourself.
Thanks,
Izzy

 

we are splitting hairs on the et Duane because it was .074 in actuality. The final would have been a win for Chris if he didn't have issue I concede but it would not have been in the 20's. My main point on the performance in the good conditions particularly at Houston was it came from a few teams not expected to run that quick this early, when they had never even been that close to that in years past, with more percentage. I Hate that their is so much attrition from the A/Fuelers learning the new %. That is the poart that is not fair.
Here is a question to the A/Fuel teams that I would like to see an honest answer to:

Would you like to see the class become just an A/Fuel class only, because that is what it sounds like?

Are you thinking about the big picture or just your own operation.
As a fan I can look at both sides objectively.


The two different types of cars is what makes the the class more exciting than other classes, much like Pro Mod.
As a fan first, that is the attraction. As a racer I understand that your vested interest makes you want your car to have an advantage. But there are divisional races where the fans are passionate about the TA classes, and you are treated like someone special.

And as far as thanking Whitely and Cowie for having issues at Vegas, I think they want to thank the A/Fuelers over the last five years, for overpowering the track to allow them a chance once in a while to win a race.


As Far as the part attrition Issue, the keyboard does not do what you always mean any justice!!!
HERE IS WHAT i SAID:

Yes the attrition is likely to be worse this year, at least for the first half of the season until it all gets figured out, and for that the rules suck and it is not fair that the injected guys seem to be the ones taking it up the arse. But I am still seeing lots of carnage from the top funded bads as well as they wring the necks in their ride trying to run low 30s and high 20s.

I am defending you guys Duane

THe percentage Of A/Fuel teams versus BAD's is around 68%


Dean

 

This is never gonna end

This is getting old. I have been pissed about this for a long time. Izzy ya got a valid point....kind of you should be pissed at nhra. their screwing every body including you. but how many national events are at A-fuel freindly tracks and how many are at blower car friendly tracks? what about the jegs all star race? or tracks like gainsville? we could cross hairs all of our days about pairity. we would be doing ourselves and the fans a great injustise. the real problem is that nhra is more worried about musems and making money than race cars going as fast as they can. i am a big fan of nitro but i really like blowers too. so what do we do? we do the same thing we do in the real world. ADAPT IMPROVISE AND OVERCOME. we should start by writing the good old nazi's...or nhra letters about our feelings about there rules. A 270 mph racecar is a good show. promote the classes to nascar nationwide status and get the shit on the air. and at a local track like the one they just lost in salt lake to ihra. advertise. payout the racers. treat the fans in smaller or less historic tracks to a high quality show. not a OH BY THE WAY IF YOU TURN TO THE BACK OF THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THIS CAR THAT IS BAD ASS. NASCAR runs sometimes three events at the same track. IN THE SAME WEEK. why cant nhra fans see days of competition above the super seires? if we were to band together and ooo skip a race that might help or even form an actual racing orginization that would do theese things. mabey even pay for some damn T.V. time that has not been postponed due to Chineese fnnnnn table tennis. A-fuel is a bad ass racecar. Blown Alcohol Dragsters are as well. why cant they add to our lives. Unleash those muthers and let them go instead of trying to make them fit in a box that dosent piss absoluteley everybody off. You are a good racer. whiteley, sheilds, reicheart and so on. why are you being sold short I dont know. When i was a kid in slc after they quit having the western nationals at bonneville. the only thing left were top alky cars and the occasional match race. then my dad and some other guys started putting some nitro in their tanks. i'm not sure if you are a native to utah but i'm sure there are alot of card carring members of nhra that are racing today because of the little tracks with the bigger show than joe monkey wrench an his 72 nova. i thank will for providing us a forum to vent its priceless. but we need to do something about our passion other than bitch at each other about it. i really could go on but im sure you need time to work on your car. and i have to go figure out how to finish paying for the motor in my top dragster, get the money to run it and figure out how the hell im eeeevvver gonna get back in another TAD and drive the FU$%ing wheels off of it NO ANIMALS WERE HARMED IN THE PROUDTION OF THIS LETTER AND NO OFFENCE WAS INTENDED PERSONAL OR PROFESSIONAL TO YOU GUYS WHO HAVE MORE I DO RIGHT NOW. I WILL BE JOINING YOU IF IT KILLS ME.
SHANE PEARMAIN TAD 508/ TOP DRAGSTER 5513
p.s. i think it would be cool as hell to see a-fuel funnies

 

Dean, while I try to understand your logic, here is a question for you? Why should Sheilds, Reichert, Brandon Johnson, myself and many others have to bear the costs to keep parity? Don't you think that we have spent our fair share when we sold our blower cars to be competitive??? We didn't expect anyone else to change the rules for us?
As far as Whitely & Cowie are concerned, neither one of them raced TAD 5 years ago to my knowledge. Therefore running a blown car is their choice. They should've know what they were buying. Some of us chose to change cars, they choose not to.

 

I don't post on here much anymore for obvious reasons, but Dean, I do have a question for you. (and this is just a question, I'm not a dragster person, so I'm just an innocent by stander watching an innocent statement be brow beaten).

did you see Chris's computer to know this information?

Duane & Jeff both run with the Peen Rite team. I would think they would be in the know just from the time slip increments, that Duane has mind you, and he would be able to do the math to back up his statement of a 5.27 run. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me at all, Peen Rite is a BAD A$$ BAD Team (hi Kevin, Chris, Jerry, Dixie .

 

you nailed it buddy.... we are all confused......
the nitro guys come togather, there is a network ...

 

I have been racing in this class for a long time (nearly 20 years) and except for the last couple years it was in a blown alcohol car. For quite a number of years with the blown car it seemed the best runs made by A-fuel cars (Rick Henklemen, Mark Woods, Kevin Brown, David Baca, Kristen Powell, Melanie Troxel-Johnson just to name a few) seemed to pop up when our car was in the other lane. It was a running joke between myself, George Santos and Norm Grimes. I hated those damn nitro cars and swore I would never switch, in fact I said I would quit racing first. Notice I said I hated the cars, not the car owner, driver or crew. In those days it was very frustrating to be one of the fastest blown cars, qualified in one of the top spots paired up with a slower qualified a-fuel car and then have them make one of, if not the best run of their career and put you on the trailer. Some got fed up and switched to funny car like Jay Payne, Don Hudson, Jeff Wilson, Lee Calloway to name a few and others like Jerry Darrien, Tom Conway, Bill Reichert, Shelley Howard, Artie Allen, Larry Meirsch, Duane Shields switched to A-Fuel. (In fact, to my knowledge all of the current teams that run a-fuel previously had blower cars.) We kept with the blower car during this time vowing "to never switch". I tested, with limited success, a 10" lock-up clutch, a 2 disk 10" clutch, a 2 disk 10.5" clutch, a 2 disk 10.5" lock-up along with various fuel system changes during the span of 3 years all in an attempt to gain some performance and become more competitive with the a-fuel cars. It is now 2006 and I am contemplating quitting racing. It's just not fun anymore. Enter Duane Shields. Now Duane and I have been friends for a number of years and he encourages me to sell my car and switch to the other side. There had been no rule changes on the a-fuel side for a couple of years and it appears the class is heading in that direction. Jim Whitley is building a pro mod car and talking about switching classes and Sean O'bannon has switched to a funny car. So I build an a-fuel car and with Duane's and Dana Hopewells help we win our first outing with the car, the 2007 Winternationals. I even remember talking to Jeff Isbell and encouraging him to come on over to the other side after this race.

So now we are beginning the 2009 season. The last couple of years have been a very humbling learning experience for me and my team. There have been 3 rule changes since I have switched to a-fuel and we are starting the year with the latest, 94% nitro. Some of the veteran a-fuel teams will adapt to this change easier than others. Many, including myself, who have yet to find a consistent baseline are having a tougher time. Some have said if Reichert or Shield's would have been in Vegas they could have run with the blown cars. Well guess what, they were'nt! The a-fuel cars that were there aren't what I would call non-competitive. Even though we are struggling now our car has run in the 20's and 30's under different %'s as have Niver, Darrien, Cox, Miersch, Isbell and Ahten.

So what's the point of all my rambling you might ask? Rules changes in an attempt to acheive parity affect whatever side of the class you're on. Take my word, I have been on both sides! When I go to the races I know what the rules are and try to the best of my ability to compete within those rules. If at some point this no longer remains a challange that is still fun, or I no longer believe my car can be competitive then I will have a choice to make. Right now it is very challanging but not always fun. This doesn't mean I will always agree with the rules or won't express my frustration with them like some do on this site.

Hopefully this will give some insight to some of you from a racers perspective. BTW I have always thought the class should only be one type of car, a-fuel or blown alchohol. I have run both and have my preference, but either would do. Parity issue solved!

Mike Johnson

 

That is the type of post Mike that makes people think. And I salute you for it.
While he stated, he thinks it should be only one type of car, he did not say which, and I guess it has changed from five years ago, but maybe not.

Jeff, Unfortunately you are forced to bear the costs of parity, (and it does suck, but a compeitive blown car bears a lot of cost to run 30's and 20's) because there are two different types of cars. That being said, I think that the NHRA is not making rule changes only for parity, they are making changes to slow down the A/Fuelers.

My honest opinion, is go to 1000 feet and then give back the % you had last year. I think that the top teams in both types of cars would be very close to the 1000 foot stripe (based on the piles of incrementals I have gone over in the last year). And at higher elevations give the A/Fuelers 100%

One thing both A/Fuel teams have to remember it that in the last 12 years they have borne the unfortunate cost of rule changes almost every time (only the od% increase and the clutch deal are BAD changes), so going into the A/Fuel car to begin with you had to be aware that there would likely be the majority of changes for you as knowledge and technology improves.

Nancy you are right I don't know for sure, but based on earlier runs in eliminations and the fact Chris said the et slip or scoreboard read 5.37 I don't know that .08 quicker what have been the result if he did not have issues.
Only Chris or Duane could let us know for sure if the incrementals at 660 would have translated to a '20. post them if you wish

And Jeff I am not try to be an ass or pissy with you, I respect how well you have done with the A/Fueler already andI really respected your ability in BAD, (wish you would have stayed simply because you were one of the best in BAD and the class needs good BAD to keep the class competitive, since I for one want to have both types of cars in the class).
The same really goes for Duane and Mike as I know them personally.
You are right both Whitely and Cowie arerealatively new to the class, and both chose the BAD, like every newcomer or veteran chose to run A/Fuelers they did it on their own and the should have done it knowing what the possible future holds. You did not go into the class blind without knowing the possibilities, you are too smart of a person.


Dean

 

Dean, first of all let me say that this isn't personal towards anyone only the situation. I consider Jim Whitely a friend as well as Chris Demke (even though he finally beat me).
I shouldn't have to bear the cost of parity. I tried looking up parity in the rulebook and it wasn't in there. I looked everywhere on NHRA's website and nothing was ever mentioned about parity. NHRA never promised us parity only a chance to play in their playground.
I loved driving my blown car but I can honestly say I like driving the A Fuel car more (call me crazy)!
I know there are a lot of fans that like blown cars & A Fuel cars. But unfortunately none of these fans help pay my bills. We don't have sponsors & most races we don't have anyone in the stands either.
I wish they would give us the nitro percentage back and race to 1000'. I've stated that all along. It was the cheapest, easiest & safest thing to do while making a substantial difference between us and the Top Fuelers.
94% is not the answer. It has created more problems than solutions & I honestly hope NHRA will do something to correct this.

 

So..... if NHRA gave the A/Fuel guys 96% and 'fuel cooling' back, but added weight- would this be a good compromise? Is the parts breakage related to the percentage of the nitro, or due to the fact that you have to 'run the engine' harder to compete?

Sorry if I sound ignorant about this, but I have not dealt with Injection since I used to go by Adams shop in OCEANSIDE, CA back in the early 90's.

 

cylinder head dammage

I don't think the parts breakage will "go away" as the teams figure this out. As Duane said, it's the change everybody is making to get the cars to run on 94% that is killing cylinder heads. We have hurt a head on almost every pass and I know it's not just us. That equates to around 500-1000 dollars extra per pass that teams were not paying prior to 94%.
We are not Top Fuel cars with Top Fuel budgets. increasing the cost of racing doesn't create parity.
The last time I checked in the rule book, page 1 TAD is listed under Sportsman Racing.
Vegas is no walk in the park for an A/Fuel car and NHRA gives Div 7 four races there! oh ya, don't forget Div7 has Fallon and Tuscon on 94%. that will sure be some parity.
Johnny
TAD 734

 

Thx Johnny!

 

Johnny explain to me how 94% is harder on parts than 96%? Higher Compression? I guess I assumed the A/Fuelers were just about Maxxed out in that Dept. running without a Blower.

 

Gotta burn the fuel somehow. If you want the car to move it needs nitro. Each time you add more alcohol to the same volume you lose horsepower (alot of horsepower). To overcome this you need to increase volume. The trick is trying to burn it. When was the last time you saw flames from an A/fuel car? From the headers, not the head gasket........
By the way guess what happens when you can't burn that much fuel? hurt rods, cranks etc.
Johnny

 

Too bad you don't get fans at the div races you compete at Izzy, you REALLY MIGHT LIKE IT UP HERE IN THE NORTH WEST

tim, you can still chill the fuel
Duane is the cost reaching BAD costs per run or is it more?

Dean