Impact SFI-15 and SFI-20 Firesuit Fail SFI Testing

Will
I thought Simpson left his company because of the Dale Earnhardt seat belt accusation from NASCAR's lawyers? But that the cause of seat belt cuts were eventually attributed to his extraction by NASCAR's own safety crews? Another theory I heard was that Dale never wore his belts properly or as designed. As he preferred to sit in a semi reclined position. What ever happened to that legal fiasco? Dismissed? Dropped?

Regarding how this was handled

I can remember the time Keith Black had a manufacturing defect back when his was the only product of its specific type available. I believe Milodon was gone by then. Around the same time the guy I was crewing for needed a half inch short deck solid block for his TAD to replace the one that was Irreparable due to an incident at Cayuga. Unfortunately for us Keith Black completely stopped production of any blocks that season until the problem was resolved and apologized to all his customers in advertisements placed in National Dragster. There would be no blocks until mister Black was confident that anything going out of his shop in South Gate met his specifications. Can you imagine the harm his credibility would have taken had he continued to ship blocks out that season and just blow it off as something that four employees caused to occur?

Why didn't Bill Simpson do the same? once a problem was detected, stop production?

Al Smith

 

so what do you recommend , Will, to prevent other manufactures from making the same mistakes, accidently or on purpose? mandatory Independent test? review of products by ones peers? surely all the hub bub this has caused will result in somthing more positive in the future than running one guy out of busniess?

 

If it happens I think he did that to himself.

 

not my point. whats done is done. bills gonna get villified, and life will go on.

My point is , this situation has resulted in a considerable amount of commotion on web sites just like this one. So much so that I, and I am sure anyone else who wears the Impact product , am now concerned for my safety.

So starting tomorrow, we go buy the next super safe deal just like your freinds always use, and this happens all over again next year.... or do you think this would never happen with any other manuafacturer?

Every single person that now leaves Impact and buys elsewhere is bound to think they might get screwed again.

seems to me that if what all of you are saying ... old Bill pulled a fast one on us all... then whats all the money we pay to SFI good for? Clearly they cant enforce whats going on till after the fact.

whats the next positive and logical step to prevent the next guy from doing the same?

any discussions?

 

IMO, Dale was not wearing his seat belts when he crashed. It is the only logical explanation of the incident. then a cover up.

 

I’ll take a shot at this but I could be missing some fundamental information, but I think I’m correct, so here’s how I see it. SFI is a non profit company and appears to do a good job! But there’s a fundamental flaw in the system. They work for the wrong people. From what I understand they are under contract from the manufactures and through those manufacturers is how they are paid. That’s like having the FDA on the payroll of the nation’s top 10 drug companies? A huge conflict in interest! I don’t believe this current situation would have been nearly as out of control if SFI would have been able to act immediately to get it under control. This would have been better for everyone involved and probably resolved last November. Every piece of safety equipment that requires SFI certification should also have a serial number on it and the SFI tag. When a product i.e. a Fire suit, clutch can etc. is made and then sold the SFI serial number should go on file at NHRA and a fee paid to NHRA by the manufacturer for the registration of that individual item. NHRA would then pay the certification entity, in this case SFI, a pre set amount for each serial numbered item that SFI is staking there reputation on or some other payment terms that fit the situation and insure that SFI is funded properly and can operate efficiently. In the event of a breech in manufacturing quality it could be narrowed down to the exact pieces and production minutes in question not years, a recall would be based on facts and exact production dates not speculation. The manufacturers would know upfront that in the event they produce a product out of spec they could be suspended until it is resolved, not necessarily a bad suspension just until its identified and corrected. I know some are saying “Yikes what would that cost” but we must be paying it now with every purchase and everyone that has a 15 or 20 suit boots etc. in question is making the payments on a UPS truck and still nobody knows who has a good suit or a suspect suit. Houston will be interesting this weekend to say the least!! Bottom line is at the very minimum the certification entity should work solely for the sanctioning body and no others!

Thanks for the Space Will,
Kent Goss

 

when I last checked the Clasic funny car board where they were talking about the suits I saw they took it off the site and it was 18 pages of posts last time I checked then I heard the owner got a email from saying they would sue them and there sponsers if they didnt take it down. he should of made a copy of the email and posted it on his site just to show everone how those guys treats racers.

 

How about having a couple of 3 guys going around to the manufactures, where the stuff is made and inspect the stuff before it's made, once a month randomly, What with people out of work it creates jobs and keeps the manufactures honest. They get paid like the chassis inspection, From the guy building the product. Of course they would have to be like the Untouchables.

 

A little insight on SFI.

I know we don't make suits here, but I think you all should know what goes in to the SFI certification process on any given part that has a tag on it. This is purely from the clutch and disc perspective, so I can't speak for any other parts.

So you want to be an SFI approved clutch manufacturer? Here's what it entails. First, you have to have built the product according to the SFI guidelines using the approved materials only. When it comes to any SFI 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 clutch or component, the material has to be certified using existing ISO quality processes by the raw material vendor.

So you've built your unit, now you have to send prints, photos to SFI to initiate the testing process. Once your designs are approved, you have to have the unit sent to an independent lab of SFI's choice for material and destruction testing. After the materials are verified, they take the entire clutch and spin it until it explodes. If it lasts through 150%+ of the highest RPM's seen in a race application, it can now be certified. You then pay your fees to SFI to become a member and buy your certification stickers. This is a very long process that is paid for entirely by the manufacturer, usually in the tens of thousands of dollars range plus whatever it cost you to build the clutch.

Then if the clutch is to be used in competition you also have to get the sanctioning body's approval for use, which I would assume would be true of ANYTHING to be used in racing.

From this point on, it is up to the manufacturer to manage the quality process. If you put that tag on something, you are saying that it is made to the EXACT standards of the unit or units that were tested. The whole point of the system is to examine the part you are sending out BEFORE you even tag the thing. If there is a defect, it is up to the manufacturer to stop it BEFORE it leaves your premises.All the dollars spent on testing and getting approval get you is the right to PURCHASE your SFI tags, which SFI keeps track of which tags they send to you. You also get to show up to the mettings and give input on any changes you might like to see, which usually go in the direction of making the rules even more strict. Should you let a bad part get out the door, you must act quickly to correct your mistake. At this point you're already in danger of losing your SFI credentials, which if you lose them completely, you may as well close the doors.

Should you not step up and do the right thing, SFI will step in, pull your certs, and decide what to do with you later. From that point on, your product is no longer in compliance with the sanctioning body's rules and your product can no longer be used because no one will pass tech with your stuff. You have to remember SFI isn't a part of any given sanctioning body, it is a set standard for products used by racers in any given sanctioning body. NHRA, IHRA, ADRL, FIA, NASCAR, IMCA etc.. the list goes on.. They all use the SFI standards when making their rulebooks and bring input to the table should they see a need for a change in one of those standards.

All I can say is that with SFI, the accountability falls on the manufacturer first. If you screw up, you need to fix it, and in a timely manner that won't jeopardize the safety of ANY more racers than you already have. SFI does not have the funding to examine EVERY part that gets certified, that is up to the manufacturer. If you try to take advantage, be prepared for the consequences. In the case of Impact, I hope the consequences are severe.

 

Nicely put Sir. Thank you for taking the time to explain it.

 

From an 'outsiders' (read bracket racers) perspective I found this thread mindblowing from the first sentence. I had seen the recall notices, was curious to the 'scoop' and was directed here by a retired TAFC driver. First, I want to personally thank Richard Putz for his honesty and fortitude in putting out his original post and, in essence, telling the emperor he was naked. He did so in the face of real retribution and I feel all you guys are lucky to have him as a member of your community.
Although its been only indirectly addressed here I wonder seriously about the efficacy of my own safety equipment. My helmet is an Impact and I must say its the lightest, best fitting, and best engineered helmet BY FAR that I've ever owned. It wasn't cheap, either (although it was cheap compared to yours...). But if I ever HIT something?? Now, I wonder.
I think as the reality behind this recall filters out more and more people will be aware of the basic problems, and the bottom line is if we are to race, we need to have confidence in our safety equipment. Period. And I think it is the reponsibility of NHRA to help us get that 'mojo' back. I recommend that NHRA publish an article or series of articles in National Dragster explaining the SFI specs, and how the various articles we buy conform to the specs and why. Testing and quality control are tantamount to this.
One last item. You guys all know HOW to use/wear your safety equipment. As you probably know, many sportsman racers do not. Loose belts, missing neck collars (so they can turn around to see the guy chasing them) and torn and out of date clothing are almost the norm. One of the problems is that no safety equipment comes with instructions, obviously due to the legal implications. You're left to your devices to figure it out. Fortunately for me, I went to Hawley's school way back when and had it explained to me (and I never forgot!). Wouldn't it be wonderful to see ND grow big testicles and run an article on THAT; how to properly wear/use your equipment? Unfortunately, that will never happen, I'm sure.
In the spirit of real names,
Bill Horton
1395S
West Hartford CT

 

No thanks necessary. I try to be as open as possible in any circumstance, and I just wanted to help clarify everyone's current role in the certification process. Racers deserve honesty.

I should also point out that every SFI tag has a serial number printed on it when you get it from SFI. They keep track of what numbers they sent and to whom. From there it is the manufacturer's responsibility to keep track of the end user who received that SFI tag. If you look on your clutch parts, your flywheel, donut, hat, floaters and discs (in some cases the heat shields on both the flywheel and donut) will all be engraved with a letter and then a six digit number (ex. H003250), then a date and the manufacturer's mark/name.

 

Confidence

I have followed this thread so closely because it truly scares the crap out of me to think of the consequences should I be wearing inferior safety equipment.

I might have inferior stuff because I made the decision to purchase something because of it's price. That's on me!

Now I am feeling that I might have something inferior because "cost cutting" in the suppliers company occurred and I am not getting the quality that I initially was promised from them.

At this point, hell, .............. how do I really know what I am really getting from "any" of the companies?.

I just don't have confidence that this situation will not repeat itself with any of the suppliers that we typically use.

I hate sounding like the "cry baby" here, but geeeeeeezzzzz ! What assurances do we have that everyone is, and will continue to "play by the rules"?

 

You should take stock in the fact that a good majority of the companies out there wouldn't handle this situation like Impact did. As has been previously posted, many people have had experiences with manufacturing screw ups, and almost all of them ended well and were taken care of in the manner necessary.

You should also take stock in the fact that a most of the hardcore racing companies aren't in existence just to make a quick buck. OE suppliers, sure, but in hardcore racing I would be willing to bet you're getting what you pay for 99% of the time. Why would you make a part for a performance based industry that won't perform? Shoot, most hardcore racing companies were started just so guys could either finance their race own teams or have a legitimate business expense reason to go to the track every weekend. You don't want to sell something bad to people you see armed with tools every weekend.

Unless the company is so large it has the market cornered, sales depend on reputation. Most companies can't afford major screw ups and not make them right as quickly as possible, and as I posted before, SFI is not scared of pulling your credentials all together.

 

just had lunch today with a fellow that races dirt track.."bummer for him" but anyway he just got all of his safty gear from impact..and he is now boxing it back up and sending it back..he didnt like what he was reading.he now is going to call dennis taylor..Dave

 

Heres the death blow. :eek
http://simpsonraceproducts.com/dixon-and-pedregon-speak-out/

 

Dang, that's not good, surprised he doesn't threaten to sue them too

 

All he will get from them is practice.

 

It will be intresting what the pros are wearing (firesuit wise), and what they will say about Impact Racing (if anything) this weekend in Houston.

 

They wont,...

It is not in the best interest for the Nhra to get involved.

Just like everything else Nhra neglects to talk about.