Mag 44 or 10 plus

526 BAE stage V fat head 14-71 Superman Kelbelco on Alochol= I know the Mag is the way to go but I allready have the 10 plus and so far its worked flawless on a 588ci 14-71 standard helix 18 lbs boost? Don't wanna spend $3000 if I don't have to

 

Get rid of the MSD 10. I also had a BBC 588 with a 1471 hi-helix. When I went from 18lbs to 30lbs of boost I started putting holes out. Switched to a MSD 20 mag and problem went away and we picked up 5/10's. You see 12's and 20's on here all the time for about half of that 3K. Btw I got $650 for my MSD when I sold it so you really just need another $800.-$1,000.

 

Agreed.

Ignition is one area you DON'T want to skimp on, and as James has said, you'll get reasonable coin for your 10 and that will offset the cost a bit. Make the investment now and you won't regret it. Plus, once you've got it you'll never have to worry about it.

With the increase in cylinder pressure that comes with upping boost pressure, you NEED a good ignition system. Can't get around it.

Paul.

 

Look on racingjunk under hemi I think. NEW 44 and used coil and box for 2000 from RWR. Super deal from Roger. Also used 44 on ebay ending today. Under 1000 at the moment.

 

ya thanks Everybody I bought that 1 from Roger

 

JamesD, did you ever have problems with your 10 Plus not firing the coil. After rockingham last year I mothballed the car and a couple of weeks ago tried to start it and had no fire to the plugs or to the dist. off of the coil. They have it now but it makes me wonder if it's time to go to a mag, yaknow? I run a BBC also... with a 14/71 psi HH. Do you think I'd pick up also? Have been told by others that it probably would not help. Thanks Jody

 

Jody I run a blown alcohol 565 in top dragster with a 10 plus, at the division race in shreveport my car would not start when we got to the starting line
it had no spark. I sent my box and coil back to msd and they said it all was good. My problem ended up being a shorted crank trigger pick up, if you check the resistance across the 2 terminals with an ohm meter I believe it should be between 50 and 80 ohms but I would have to check to make sure thats right.

 

In all fairness to the MSD 10 Plus, most of the time when changing to the Pro Mag there's also a tune up change or something else that probably fix's more than the ignition change.
I run a 10 Plus on my blown gas deal and have a liveable tune up at 35 psi and working on 38 psi. You do have to watch your coil wire regularly because it does break it down. When it breaks it down inside the insulation and a gap burns in there it will push the ignition pretty hard to continue jumping the gap inside the insulation until it fails.

I know there's been times when I thought something wasn't working for me so I spend a bunch of money changing to something else to only find out that the reason it wasn't working was me.....go figure.

Yes I do know that with alcohol the volume of fuel comes into play, my son has a blown alcohol with the Promag 12 which I help him tune.

When you compare the energy at the plug the MSD 10 plus does pretty good against everything except the MSD ProMag 44 which is king at 950 millijoules at the plug. The MSD 10 Plus is next at 700 millijoules, the ProMag 20 is 600 millijoules and the ProMag 12 is 300 millijoules.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticken to it.

Blessings............Ron Clevenger.

 

ignition

I run an xdi electromotive ignition system (waist spark ). 38 psi boost and 12.7:1 comp works great. It has 4 coils and is a crank trigger set up. the entire system is about 1400.00 for the lap top programable unit and about 1000.00 for the standard unit its not a magI took a shot in the dark and it worked. They run them on tractor pullers making over 100 psi boost the electronic system has a lot of built in features inputs outputs launch controller ect.

 

Scott, thanks for the reply. The first thing I did was ohm the coil wire... nothing So I made a new coil wire (moroso ultra 40) ohm'ed it .... checked good. Put it on the car still no fire, thats when I sent it back to MSD, haven't heard back yet. My old coil wire was bad so I just new I had it whipped when I put on the new coil wire but noooooo wrong again. I wish MSD would come out with a Digital 10, like the digital 7 series, now that would be cool.

 

I'm glad to see some people trying the Electromotive. I run one on my 4 cyl turbo alky deal and can't put a hole out yet at 12:1 and 42 psi. I really had my doubts about using it at first especially after reading about all the roots blown guys having little luck with anything but a mag but it seems to work just fine for me.

Good point about the tractor pullers. Whereas in the blown alcohol world 40-50psi of boost is pretty high, the tractors routinely run 60-100 on alcohol and I have seen more than one running some kind of coil pack deal. Plus in the high boost/high hp per cube arena of import racing it's almost unheard of to run a mag. A lot of that might have to do with interference issues with their ECM's but it doesn't prevent them from making 10+ hp/cu.in.

It might be a case of apples to oranges but maybe someone could enlighten me on what the differences are?

 

Xdi ignition

YEA it works great I wish we had 4 vps and ohc ilke the imports. they would need more body bags. I would recomend this ignition to anyone open minded enough to try it I bet it is at least 10 pounds lighter and you can pull out timing at any boost level or add it.Also has one timed output and you can add two more and 2 more timing changes with 2 digiset timers any questions call Larry SR orJR at hp works 804 241 9063 or Fred at electromotive 703 331 0100 hope this helps Craig

 

This digital stuff...

What would than be added to the 10 that it doesn't already have? Help, I've never worked with this stuff.

 

Yeah, I ran a digital 7 on my bbc blower motor for 1/2 year. Had no problems but I was running a non-retro hh littlefield at only 26% od. When I stepped to a retro hh and then to a new psi 14/71 everone told me to go to a 10 plus or better yet a 44 amp mag, not wanting to spend the money on a mag I went with the 10 plus. It works great when it works, however it would be alot better if it had all the built in features that my digital 7 did plus a lower amp draw on the batt's. Now I have talked to msd and they showed me how to wire my digital 7 into my 10 plus to take advantage of the digital features of the 7 while letting the high side and two step still be off the 10 plus ( it has to be on the 10 plus). But it would be much simpler to just have one box and less stuff to go wrong.

 

I guess I am one of the sheep following others in regards to using Mag44.
Has someone got the MJ comparisons with Mag 44 verse electromotive, verse MSD10+? Is MJ the correct way to compare?
Is there more cost effective way and reliablity considerations we need to start understanding instead of doing what we perceive based on advertising numbers?
Like to ask dumb questions.

 

When you compare the energy at the plug the MSD 10 plus does pretty good against everything except the MSD ProMag 44 which is king at 950 millijoules at the plug. The MSD 10 Plus is next at 700 millijoules, the ProMag 20 is 600 millijoules and the ProMag 12 is 300 millijoules.

this is a quote posted eairler in this thread the #'s are correct I compared them on MSD's sight, although good question is this the proper way to compare them. Im think the mag keeps making power as it gets spun faster (because its a generator) were as the MSD 10 is making less power at high rpm as the battery goes down, just a theroy.

 

Theoretically millijoules should be a good number to use as comparison but I get the impression it's not that simple. Not trying to be too cynical but using MSD's advertised numbers as the last word seems a little too trusting. Is there any way to independently verify the actual output of these parts?

"Our ignition units are the absolute best, you can take our word for it"

I looked at the specs for a Motec coil pack ignition which is used on many 12-1600 hp 4 cylinders and they are only rated at about 110mj. How do they fire that much fuel volume and cylinder pressure with a rating lower than a 6AL?

I don't know if Electromtive even rates theirs by millijoules, they do claim an extremely long spark duration though.

Unless a lot of the difference is in the fuel delivery differences between an EFI turbo and an MFI roots combo. That is what I meant about apples to oranges. Until some more people try out of the box solutions it's a lot of guesswork.

*Disclaimer* - I am sure not trying to say a 44 mag is not everything they claim, just that there might be other options for the non Top Fuel crowd.

 

There is more to it than just the milljoules.

Taken from Chevy hi performance .com
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/45618_inductive_cd_ignitions_basics/index.html


This article leans heavy toward Cd ignitions BUT if you think about it the MAG neto is still king because of its LONG spark duration. As illustrated in the link below
http://www.gill.co.uk/products/digital_ignition/Introduction/4_CDIvsIIS.asp

there is a huge basic difference in how each system works. AS RPM goes up the CD ignition has a shorter time slot to fire the fuel. However as RPM goes up the Inductive ignition's ability to light the fuel kernel stays long as relative to RPM. Slow hard to light burning fuels really benifit from this long spark duration.

You apply the fire to the fuel for a longer time. Try this with your fire place at home when you are trying to get it going. Flick a lighter many times fast under kindling. It will work if the kindling is prime like pine knots. Now turn the flame down and hold it on the fuel ( kindling ) for a minute. Bingo

 

Maybe you didn't read my post about the MSD 10 Plus being a different kind of new technology..... Capacity/Inductive discharge ignition. In it they have combined the best of both worlds. The 10 plus has a flame duration of 20-30 degrees of crank which is right there with the ProMag's 25 degree's of duration.
But today, the ProMag 44 is still king at 950 millijoules.

Blessings.........Ron.

 

ignition

I run the electromotive xdi2 and it has worked perfect 12.8:1 37 psi 14-71 hh