re: wacked again

Wow!

Are you saying Manzo's blown alky funny will be even quicker? I think you better ask the crew chiefs on here about that. The blown alky cars are tapped out.
Best Regards,
larry

 

Yes, I heard a rumor that he thinks he'll only be down .15 or so from the quickest AFFC. If he is triple zero on the starting line and runs consistent low 5.40s, he might win a few rounds here and there.

 

I'd like to see what the Quickest 25 E.T.'s in the Dragster class were in '08, I'll bet 20 of them were from A-Fuelers.

 

Not sure how accurate this is , but:

Draglist.com

By my count it is 18 out of 25 and 9 out of the top 10.

 

Yeah, but if Norm Grimes was still tuning a BAD....

Wait for it, it will come.

 

Grimes

I believe Norm was tuning Whitely all year.

 

Will meant the blown car guys sent letters and it was right after Dallas way before Pomona when the a/fuel guys signed one.

 

WOODCHIP:



Boost is boost. More boost means more power or allways has when combined with more fuel flow. They just gave the current screw cars more od year before last. That was suppose to be the equalizer. What happened???
Its up to the blown guys to figure out how to utilize the increase in boost but as you said some just took the smaller pulley off instead of figureing out how to make it work. Cost money to figure out a new and faster combination.

Since the tracks are better prepared now than they were years ago why isn't the performance of the blown cars better now than in the past.

To compare a fuel reduction in top fuel with 500 cid blown motors making more hp than most any of the tracks would hold is rediculas. Besides they all had to reduce power not half of the class. The rest of the story is that they gave it back to them this past year!

Obvious you have not paid to much attention to the rule changes for a-fuel dragsters. In the past 3 to 4 years we gone from 100 % to 98% to 97% to 96% and now to 94%. Not to mention the minimun wt. changes.

According to your asumptions reducing the % of nitro run does not work as all we have to do is spend another 3000 dollars for a bigger fuel pump and increase the fuel flow. I wish it were that easy. You can bet all the teams with the resources will be out making test runs before the season begins.
Some who can afford it will make alot of runs which cost alot of money, which in this depession is not a good thing. I personally think that TAD and racing in general will change a lot throughout the year. The money is already dissappearing and is going to get much worse as all kinds of industries will be impacted. This is really not a good time to be making it more difficult to compete.

Bob Holley

 

unbelievable

There were great runs by both cars this year. 5.16 in pomona and 5.17 seattle by afuel cars at tracks that normally have the best numbers all year. 5.31 in tucson, 5.38 in acton, 5.49 in denver and 5.27 in Dallas and 5.26 in Sonoma by a blower car. Are they equal, no, but the 5.16 didn't win the event either. Can a blower car run 5.16 or 5.17 no, but an afuel car can't run 5.31 at 96% in Tucson either.

I just can't believe that with the current state of the economy and the potential for low car counts in the professional categories that NHRA would make such a drastic change on the afuel cars . They say it is for the sake of parity. 2% is more than just for parity. This change affects the majority of the class that shows up to race (A fuel cars). It has taken most of the year and a half for alot of the afuel cars to become competitive again. Some still haven't got there. A rule change cost people alot of money, in testing, part changes, and the parts breakage from the changes required to become competitive. To do this now, with the economy, many may not make the investment.

We need racers!!! The letter that the afuel racers sent to NHRA said nothing more than we felt that a change right now could have horrible affects to car counts next year and that it wasn't a time for change. I hope that letter wasn't correct. I guess we will see next season.

Duane Shields
5TAD

 

Thank You Duane

 

Will if you believe that stuff about the boost stacking up in the manifold try running the od without any changes to the fuel system and see how many pistons end up in the pan and on the cyl. walls. More boost on the back side of the valve in the intake runner means more air in the cyl on the compression cycle. If you still think the extra boost doesn't help put a boost gague in the intake runner and one in the manifold plenum. See how much difference you get. What you are saying defies the law of physics for air flow and fluid flow. If anything the pressure at the back side of the valves should be greater with either of the od setups as the reduction in area at the ports
should show an increase over the plenum pressure.
If there is anyone out here that can show me the error of this please inlighten me.

Gloria it doesn't matter who signed that letter or how many emails you mail.
Guess we can always contact our division rep. I just wonder how much or if the reps had input. I would like to know when they learned of the change?
It may have been as much a supprise to them as it is to us.

 

All interesting posts and it does show the passion and posts from guys like Duane should be read and listened to. If only the NHRA would listen to the class as a whole.

BTW,
The TAFC class was actually slower overall (by quite a margin this year than last year, but Manzo was still .02-05 quicker than everyone. I believe he did not run in the 40's this year (maybe he did once or twice) like he did in 07 when he was in another stratosphere.


As much as I admire Reichert's ability his 5.16 / 282 at the finals was a crippling blow for all the other Afuel cars. yes he did not win but it was still a shot heard round the NHRA round table much like Myers a few years back. If he kept it below 278 and slower than a 5.20 the adjustment would have been 1% is my guess.
Take away the top car in each one BAD and one A/Fueler and there is a big disparity still. Especially since the performace difference between Duane and Bill was negligible

The fastest 26 runs were by A/Fuelers this year, 26 runs quicker than Whitley's 5.265. Eight runs by Duane Shields were quicker and he was one of two to go in the teens. He had 12 runs in the 5.20's. Riechert has seven runs quicker than the 5.265 and 14 runs in the 5.20's.
Whitley was the next best 5.20 performer with 6 runs in the 5.20's and he was the only BAD to do so.
No offence to those mentioned below (because they were very fast and very impressive) but newcomers like Zach Beard and Michael Manners were quicker than all the BAD's, also Art Gallant, Brandon Pierce, Mark Niver, Spencer Massey, Randy Eakins, John Finke and Aaron Tatum all went quicker than Whitley.
Other 5.20 A/F cars were, Courtney Force, Ray Hack, Dan Mercier, Dianne Harker, Johnny Ahten, Brandon Lewis, Morgan Lucas and Shawn Langdon.
A/F's that went 5.30 - 5.35 were Tom Conway, Travis Nicholson, Todd Datweiler, Mike Lewis, Kate Harker, Del Cox Jr and Brandon Johnson.
BAD drivers who went between 5.30 - 5.35 include, Marty Thacker, Shawn Cowie, Chris Demke, Darvin Martinets and Mike Kosky.
There were another 8 A/F's in the 5.30's and another 7 BAD's in the 5.30's.
Here is the most interesting number from 2008 The total # of cars in the class divisionally and nationally were 112, and the A/Fuelers totaled 67. There were 41 BAD's and there are six that I was not sure of.
What does this all mean?
In short, 19 A/Fuelers went in the 5.20's and one BAD did.
15 other A/F's went in the 5.30's and 12 BAD's did the same?
There is certainly a gap still, but a 2 % drop may be quite difficult to make up in the early part of the year. In reality I think most A/F's were 1% point down from 96 last year as they don't want runs to be dnq'ed, they may be closer to the edge next year. I think overall parity was as close as it has been in a number of years and if Whitley would have gone to Medford he likely would have won and there would have been only two rounds between him and Reichert. If Thacker would have of had a little more luck go his way (that one Div event where he got screwed) and if he had of attended two other nat's he could have been within a couple rounds as well. (those are all woulda, coulda, shoulda scenerios though).

I do feel like Will that the 280 mph speeds are as much a concern as anything.
All that being said it bugs me the NHRA does not allow more technology for the BAD's to go quicker.
Hopefully, if they see the A/F's struggle early they will make an adjustment of sorts.

I will have all the break downs of stats at SpeedZone in the year new. If any racer would like more detailed stats from the class I can compile them.

Good luck to all and have a happy holiday.

More stats to come.
Dean

 

Good point...

Duane made some good points with his comparisons at various tracks. That is what makes TAD interesting, some variety. I know I miss the days of Santos with the small Chevy and others with their "better mousetrap".
Our 5.30 at Indy was no match for the low 20's the fast guys were running and I know Bill's 5.16 at Pomona had us covered. I know our car still isn't right but we won't be running teens in 2800' air any time soon. I think NHRA is hitting the Afuel combo to keep performance levels were they are at, rather than try to speed us up. The 94% deal is significant, hopefully NHRA will watch this move and adjust if needed. We do need both combos to survive, like Duane said, we need racers.
Bill Moore, Cowie TAD 681

 

re: tad reps

where did the committee reps come in to play on this. did any a/foolers get a phone call or e mail concerning the change? did the committee know about this or were they asked an opinion? what is the committees stand on this change.

 

I guess you answered my question Dean!

 

From what Ive heard the committee is a joke NHRA could care less if there's a committee or not. No mater what its always going to be NHRA's way. The committee can talk all they want and take all our complaints to NHRA but in the end it's NHRA's way and its always been that way. THEY REALLY DONT GIVE A CRAP! ! ! ! ! and we all know that

 

NHRA Letters

Guys,

I do read this forum all the time but rarely ever participate, I can't hold my tongue any longer. I received a copy of the letter that Duane wrote. I wrote my own 3 page letter to NHRA regarding this matter. I for one neverr received any response whatsoever. Did anybody else receive any responses to letters submitted? I sent it to compton, graham, etc. No response.

For an organization that I pay dues/entry fees to I for one find the lack of response to be completely unacceptable and downright disrespectful.

If we are ever going to get anywhere with this we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves about BAD vs. AFD and gangup on NHRA. This shoudl be our class and we are not being heard.

I knew some guys that went thorugh this exact same thing with the IHRA PROMOD a while ago and the next thing you know the ADRL was born. NHRA did everyting in there power to shut them down injuctions, theats to track owners, etc. and now the ADRL is more popular then the NHRA in relative fan participation. Perhaps we need an alternative sactioning organization (ASO) as referred to by NHRA put up our own purse and our own events. or perhpas IHRA as previously metioned.

For years in the lesser sportsman classes SG, SC, TD, Etc. We got pushed around like this as well. I realize we are a "SPORTSMAN" class but after paying all the expenses to run at this level is sure feels like a PRO class without PRO benefits.

Doug

 

dissapointed

I know that the NHRA will probably read this thread, and if so I say to you NHRA, we love drag racing. So much so that we spend all of our money on it. My team is not a big buck operation. We're made up of couple of firemen, (one retired), a computer engineer, and the worlds best crew who contribute to the fund.
The last rule change cost us big. We hurt rods, wrist pins, pistons, tried different cams, clutch disks, and torched heads, blocks and sleeves trying to figure out 96%. Not at big buck test sessions, but during qualifying at events where I paid for entry, paid for all the crew member's entry and burned up a rediculious amount of Nitro in the process.
We finally got a handle on it at the end of the year, our reward was a 5.27. What is so disappointing is we have to start completly over.
What is so disappointing is the way you (NHRA) handled this rule change. Why didn't you explain the change? Why 2%? Where is an official explanation?
Duane was right, with the economy the way it is, it's doom and gloom for many, many teams. I don't know if we'll be able to survive starting over again.
RIP
Johnny Ahten