Tire Shake

Could we reached a point where the machinery is out classed the human body?

With Eric Medlen's death I think we need to look hard at tire shake. With cars shaking as hard as they are now , are we suffering close head injuries with out any outward marking. I know I have got out of the car with double vision that took a day or so to go away. Could we be so much part of the car that our brains could be damage to the point of death with out even hitting any thing? Just a thought.

 

I don't know if anyone has brought this up or not, but from day one I was thinking about the tires. I had heard from an alcohol team that they were eating tires nearly every run in Gainesville and other events, and they said they weren't the only ones... Then the day after Medlen got in the crash, and I was wondering what would make a very skilled driver crash (even though there are tons of reasons) and I thought perhaps the tires are falling apart. Then I posted on the RIP thread asking if anyone knew what happened, and someone had said the engine threw a part at the tires and they blew (think thats what he said)... So then as the tires were looked as a side effect I called my dad to run by him the possibility of that not being a side effect but rather its own isolated event.. I found out then he was putting two and two together as well, and assuming the exact same thing as me... Yesterday JFR put online that there was severe tire shake AND a tire blowout... Does anyone know if this is a tire issue? Or at least are any alky drivers on here aware of the tire issues in alky classes? I don't know if there was a final decision, but I believe there was speculation Hillary Will's crash was due to a tire piece hitting her wing... IF all this is true, is it time to fix the problem before more people get hurt?

CJ Curtsinger

 

Re

I was thinking that maybe the carsh was from being knocked out or maybe the head trama was do to the tire shake. The head in a paint blender thing

 

C J your thoughts are more than likely right, how ever if in fact the tires are the culprit, and Goodyear says that it's the tuners that make the cars go faster than the tire is designedd to go, then what? the fault goes to nhra in that they are the ones not controlling the speed of the nitro cars, what with all the rev limiters and stuff that gets circumvented by the crew chiefs, any way if there is no tire company there's no Top Fuel and Fuel Funny car....So who do you think will get blamed ? if any one. also when was the last time someone was killed or maimed in a non nitro car?????

 

get a checkup!!

In a word. YES! and more often that you think!
I saw a recent documentary where closed head injuries are much more common than thought. And often go undiagnosed for many years. If you ever have shake where your vision is later effected you have received some brain injury and I would recommend seeing a doctor immediately. What i saw on the documentary was pretty scary stuff.

 

Yes, a person can be killed from tire shake alone. It is possible to shake your brain sufficiently to cause damage and death. It happens all the time in the "shaken Baby syndrome" child abuse cases. I too have shook the car hard enough to have a headache for a couple of days, now what happens if you shake the car hard enough to cause a decreased level of consciousness? I have never driven a blown fuel type car but from what I have seen it seems as though tire shake can be worse in a alcohol car than a fuel car. Fuel cars shake and then blow the tires off, alcohol cars shake until something breaks or you run into the walls. I have wondered if alcohol cars should run a narrower tire, it would allow tire spin to stop the shake. Yes we would go slower but maybe we would have a few less head injuries (concussions) at the end of the weekend? Dave Germain

 

we are running an alcohol car with a weird combo(won't go into that) but it took us a fair amount of time to sort it out during which time we had some pretty severe shake. I mean shake that broke parts of the frame, wing, titanium bellhousing etc. so while enduring this I had blood vessels in both eyes rupture, two concussions and the kicker was a run in which I was for all intents & purpose knocked unconcious. I remember my Brother (crew cheif) motioning me to go ahead & roll through the burnout box and from what I understand from video & everybody on the crew I did the burnout, backed up staged just fine, left the line & the car shook pretty bad and long story short after two or three pedals I guess I finished the run,pulled the chutes made the turn onto the return road but the only thing I can remember is my Brother motioning to me to roll ahead then the next thing is my other Brother & my Wife asking me who I was in the trailer!
I went to the hospital, had a ct scan & they said I received a concussion and they found a brain tumor simply by chance (nothing cause by racing)
Now to shorten the story and get to my point after I had the tumor removed and started dealing with my Neurosurgeon I learned some things that I think helped me change some things on the car. He explained to me that the brain is actually very well protected (obviously still a fragile organ) from a direct frontal or rear impact, it will withstand quite a knock but he said where we get in trouble is side or diagonal impacts that twist the head abruptly, like a boxer getting cought with a left hook on the chin, thats when the nasty stuff can happen with very little impact. The interesting thing is that on that run it was the first time I had tried one of those chin straps that go from your helmet face to the lap belt and he thinks during the shake it must have gotten some slack in it then went tight which snapped my head sideways & thats what put the lights out.
All I know is the thought of having gone well over 200 mph & not remembering anything scared the heck out of me & I look at EVERY safety device in a whole different way.
Billy Wade
TAD 503
Sorry to be so long winded, I just hope this helps someone else.

 

R# Head and Neck

I also was thinking about the R#, I just bought one (Mostly because J.F racing teams and promote them on Racingjunk, wears one) It is the longer down the back type of HANS than the one in NASCAR. I wander if this will transfer more shake from the seat to the helmet. I have not used it yet. But it has more contact with the seat and body. I thought that was a good thing but now I am not so sure.

Any one else use one?

 

Eli, NHRA has a sport where you try to go as fast as possible... Rather than having a deal with Goodyear that only a specific tire can be used, why don't they allow more models so more combinations can be used? Rather than keep the tires the same and slow down the cars, why don't we keep the cars the same and improve the tires?!? If they are saying were going faster than tire is designed to go, how ignorant is Goodyear? This isn't a family in a suburban going down I-4, this is drag racing... If you are going to make a tire for a sport don't change the sport to suit your product, change your product to suit the sport!... I'm not a tire manufacturer, but isn't there something THEY can do to make them actually stay intact? New compounds perhaps?
CJ Curtsinger

 

Yes it is Drag Racing, but it's Drag Racing in 2007, 335 mph cars, s*(t happens fast at that speed ! Maybe the tires are the best that they have, drag racers were always ahead of the tires. I'm sure if they had a better tire it would be out there!

 

Somethings that are going to come up in the near future with NHRA are, Rollbar size and thickness, Bigger Butler built or ISP padding. I personaly beleve that NHRA and Goodyear need to make some tire changes. I dont like the pressure rule because of side wall thickness of our tires. As hot as the tire gets at 330 just think of the pressure at that speed. I dont think I have seen anyone monitor pressures. Only heat. My 02 cents

 

FC BOB

i purchased the R-3 this winter and have made 12 runs with it. other that getting used to getting in and out of the car with it on i have noticed no ill effects from shake (and we had a fair amount testing in LV) Actually I think it is better as my head cannot move around as much. As for the contact with the seat, if you correctly install the pad in the seat, it should not really touch much. I dont feel the carbon spine part on my back at all, actually very comfortable. I think the issue is this, your body is strapped tightly to the car (you and the car are one) now we are tying our heads to our body ( and subsequently to the car) so when you have an impact your body doesn't move and your head moves very little leaving the brain inside the skull to take the impact as it is "loose" . I'm sure in most cases the benefit of restraining the head to protect the neck outweighs the fact that with no movement of your head, the brain is absorbing the impact inside the skull as it would not take nearly as much of an impact to possible break your neck (kinda like when Dale Earnhardt died, he would have probably survived if he had some sort of "hans" device. I guess there is no way to protect us from everything that CAN happen.

 

i have a few thoughts that i would like to run by all of you. i just purchased a Hans device, and have not used it yet. for me, it looked like a better deal with more support and less head movement......thats just me. clint touched on this a little bit in his post......is it possible we are making our head too secure to our body? i know it sounds crazy, but think about it. if the only thing that can move in a collision, or hard shake is our brain then is that better or worse? if the head and neck gave a little bit, wouldn't that take up some of the slack, and not let the brain move around in the skull as much? lets hear some thoughts on this.
darren russell

 

Helmets

How about jell filled helmets to act as a shock absorber? My radio headsets in my plane has jell filled ear cups to help take away some of the vibration, kind of like a fluid damper for you head.

 

Something to note is that you have a brain stem that runs down your neck... ITs actually worse to damage this area than your head as most damages to the brain stem result in death or vegitation (or at least Im under this impresion)... So keeping your head in tune with your neck is definately a plus!... FC bob, that gel thing is a nice idea... I could buy into an idea of making the inside of the helmet more "dampening"... Eli, you definately hit that one on spot, IF they had a better one it'd be out there... Im just saying they should hurry that up and get that better one (I can still live in my perfect world for another four months... then I become an adult *eeck* )...

 

A Company Called I.s.p. Is Making A Very Wide And Thick Padding For The Sides And Top Of Drivers Head. On Alcohol Tire Shake We Found Getting Drive Shaft Speed Up High In The First 1.5 Seconds It Seems The Faster We Go The Less Shake We Have

 

Temper-pedic for your head?

How about lining the inside of the helmets with memory foam, the stuff that they use in posturepedic mattresses and pillows. According to a web site that I had seen, the foam works by distributing weight within its foam cells. They use the foam in seats for wheelchairs to help reduce pressure points, and the airline that I work for uses it in the first class seats so your butt cheeks don't hurt on those long overseas flights. My thoughts are this; being that your head and body are one with the car through the harness and the HANS, and, as Darren had mentioned of the head being too secure, the memory foam inside the helmet will have some give and will dissipate the shock of the head more evenly through the foam. This may help dampen the shock of the brain inside the skull. Any thoughts on this?

 

Many years ago I saw tires(slicks) that were very different. they were mounted on a 24 inch wheel, 36 inch tall, very short side wall. It was used on a top fuel car. match racer. cant remember who they were. It was even in a drag magazine back then. But the very short side wall would seem to help blowouts wouldnt it? They were not built by goodyear so they didnt get approval. maybe its time for some radical new engineering? Its better than being told the tire is only good for 350mph. Thats not much of a margin of safety at 335mph.

 

Tires

Don Prodome (My spelling sucks) Had them. The problem was no tire growth and the foot print did not strech. The tire size stayed the same so no high gear speed

 

Those were Hoosier tires, and when Steve Faria was driving for Darrien and Meadows they tried them too. No growth, no thanks.........
Henry
One other thing, the weight of the helmet is a contributing factor to the neck injuries. Weight and inertia, several laws of that Newton guys' come into play, and nobody has figured out how to repeal 'em yet.