racepak reading and msd grid

Working with TA/D team and have a question about timing. We have been told there is 5* loss in box. So to put it another way. When pulling timing we are seeing 5* difference in what timing should be. say 62* base pulling 15 should read 47 but not what we are getting. To the best of my knowledge, everything is phased in correctly, since I was told so and did not actually see the settings. Is this just a normal deal or we need to find out why.

 

I’ll take a stab here. You didn’t mention what box your are running or how the timing is being recorded. If your running the command module the 5* lost in the box would be if you set your initial timing at 62, with the trigger plugged directly into the mag, verified with the timing light. Then you unhook the mag from being hooked directly into the mag and plug it into the command module, you re check it with the light it will now show 57* on the light. If you are using the 0-5v from the command module piggy backed over to the racepak to monitor timing, that’s a math equation generated in the command module and sent over to the racepak. That’s a fine way of doing things but it’s been susceptible to noise in my experience.

Racepak makes a stand along timing monitor that needs to be “Cailibrated”. It uses its own pickup sensor in addition to your ignition crank trigger. To reiterate, your timing light is gospel. If it says 62* on the light and the racepak is recording say 52, your going to have to roll the racepak dedicated pickup “trigger” to match whatever it is that you are seeing on the light.

If your using the grid, it can communicate with the racepak directly and it’s reporting whatever it thinks the grid is doing. Just because the grid says it’s at 62* doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what the engine is seeing, it all depends on the settings in the grid as some of them can skew what it is reporting over to the racepak. Timing light is gospel, everything else needs to match that. Hope that helps.

 

The grid is reporting a different timing value to the racepak than what was programmed. common problem that MSD won’t acknowledge. The question is, does the grid execute what it was programmed or what it is reporting?

One potential cause that I never ruled out: if you have more than one version of the grid software on the laptop you are connecting to the grid, you need to wipe everything out and start over with only the latest version of software in the laptop and latest firmware in the grid. Create new files from scratch.

 

I would say that the grid is executing what is programmed, not what it’s reporting. Depending on the settings in the grid, you can cheat the trigger per se. So if you run out of room on the trigger, say you want 38*, but the trigger is hard on the stop, it can’t travel anymore and it’s only 36. You can manipulate the software into running the 38* you want (verified by the timing light) but it may report less than that.

Here’s where you may get into trouble. You put in the spare engine, going off the data logs you have available, as our memory isn’t usually as good as we think it is, and you load the same file in, the timing is already a couple degrees off, but this engine may have it’s trigger is in a different spot for whatever reason (tolerances, different holes, magnets in different place, etc). It’s best to check it with the light and have whatever is reporting your timing to match what your seeing on the light, that way everything matches.

The other thing is the grid reports a pretty pristine timing line, If you were to run an independent timing monitor you would see that it’s not that “clean” and it retards a tad bit with rpm.

 

Rb0804, what you described is not what I’m talking about. What I have seen is that the grid will report static timing to the racepak just fine, but when the launch curve is active, the racepak does not see the right curve. The grid data will match the grid program but the racepak will show a different, seemingly random curve. I see no reason to believe that the grid is doing what it’s programmed and reporting something different because where did those numbers even come from?

I had the racepak and the MSD rep standing there and the racepak guy was like, yep, you got issues and I guarantee it’s not in the racepak. The MSD guy just wanted to talk around the issue.

there has been known issues with having multiple versions of the MSD software on a laptop and the MSD guy wanted to deny it.

 

What does the timing light say when you activate the curve? Does it match the racepak or the grid? Like I said above if you have an independent timing monitor on the racepak it’s a more accurate representation of what’s really going on vs. what the grid “reports” to the re view software or the racepak via the can bus (if your set up that way).

 

Thankls guys we had [roblem resolved this weekend at Gators. Thanks for replies

 

What did it end up being? If you don't mind sharing.

 

Mainly a lot of miscommunications. The box is degrees of it Lehey box. Crew members doing one thing and not getting across the right settings. Plus using a non MSD timing light might have been part of it. We checked it with another team's light and found a few degrees of difference.