New MSD Eight Coil Ignition System

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by Mike Canter, Sep 21, 2019.

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  1. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Well-Known Member

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    They just came out with a box that double the milijewels now to 1500mj. Crazy to think with that will do. How long before a top fuel team gives it a try?
     
    #21
    jay70cuda, Oct 9, 2020
  2. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Got a link to that announcement Jay?....... Thanks.
     
    #22
    TOL, Oct 9, 2020
  3. rb0804

    rb0804 Active Member

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    Just some things to consider, the cdi box requires around 20 amps at full load to operate at peak performance, which means you need to either have a killer battery or a run an alternator. Your grounding and wiring is going to have to be a little more precise. I am in the middle of setting one of these up but will be using the electrimotion command module to control it. When I spoke to them they seem to think that the mag is still king as far as output goes, so I doubt that you will see one in top fuel, even if they were legal. I’m curious to see how I like the CDI deal, just about every person I seen switch over to the coil near plug from the mag has struggled a bit in the beginning with the tune up, but all seem to end up with running better in the end. I’m thinking most of the gains are gonna be in the camshaft and valvetrain area from reduced twist up from no longer spinning the mag.
     
    #23
    rb0804, Oct 11, 2020
  4. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    My thought

    My thoughts are these.......

    There are three somewhat 8-channel similar systems currently available (CDI). Fueltech, MSD and M&W. Each has its plus's and minus's, some marketing driven as opposed to engineering driven.

    Like any new/different technology offering, there are going to be positives and negatives to consider between the various offerings. Remember, this is only talking CDI, and remember this approach is still evolving.

    Yes, agreed, the voltage has to be up to par at all times during the run. If you are running a total loss charging system, then take this into account. That's why I chose to add an alternator to my mix. An alternator can help your other systems stabilize too.

    A lot of effort must go into the proper design of an 8 cylinder CNP setup. I find it very interesting the lack of shielding for RFI/EMI that both Fueltech and MSD employ to their coils. When I look at their harness's all they use is plain twisted pair wires, no shielding. Not good for most ECU's. Okay if just MFI.

    Overall, the control offered, and the timing slew offered (no rotor/cap), is way superior to any other alternative out there.

    Do we need TF equivalent output? Well first I would say that at the actual gap these systems should come very close if not equal. Do we need it for CH3OH with or without some minor additions? Prolly not.

    Take a Google at the M&W 1000 or other systems out there. You get what you pay for.

    Just my 2 Cents.
     
    #24
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
    TOL, Oct 11, 2020
  5. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    For the most part on the Top Dragster when we put it on there, I plugged our mag tune up in and it ran pretty much the same.

    What I'm running into is the CDI 600 seems to be hotter at lower rpm's. We never ran a two step leanout on the TD (we have to slow it down anyway) and it would always put the holes out and they would just gradually come back to the same way every time. With the CDI, it doesn't put them all out, and the ones it does are closer to lighting with the CDI, so most runs, No. 1 will "light" around .35-.4. If it ever lights at .25, the car picks up a nickel.

    We only had 2 leahy fuel solenoids on timers. I use both of them down track. Stage 1 uses a very close jet to what I planned on starting with on the two step, so I just decided to tie the transbrake output into the stage 1 timer. If anyone tries to do it this way, make sure you use a diode because it will backfeed to the transbrake when the timer is active. Well as I kept getting after the jet to get 1 lit, No. 4 decided it was going to stay lit on the two step. Hence we went from a .976 to a .956 60' time.

    I have a separate two step leanout on the car now so I can get after the two step without it leaning out stage 1. .956 is too quick to go 6.teens at 240+
     
    #25
    Will Hanna, Oct 13, 2020
  6. Hk_radial

    Hk_radial New Member

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    Hi ... can you please explain how to set the crank trigger/CAM sensor phasing ....with MSD GRID - PRO600

    thanks
     
    #26
    Hk_radial, Oct 18, 2020
  7. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Crank trigger is the same as you would set it on anything. I usually set it on a magnet about 3 degrees ahead of where you want "zero retard" timing at. So if you want 27, set the trigger on a magnet at 30. Always put a zero file in the grid to see what true zero is with a timing light.

    The cam sensor phasing is pretty easy. I don't know if MSD has fixed the manual yet or not - but the manual says set the cam sensor 30 degrees ahead of timing, when it really is closer to 60 degrees. So if you run 27 degrees of timing, you want it around 87-90 degrees btdc. You have a pretty wide window to get it phased in. It will start out of phase as long as it's relatively close. You look at the E F G lights on the Pro 600 box. You want to move it until just the F light is on and lock it down. I put a mark on the motor plate and now I have a spot to line it up with.
     
    #27
    Will Hanna, Oct 23, 2020
  8. Larry Bradford

    Larry Bradford New Member

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    I had a experience with 4 7 swap. The 44 was no doubt that it was on the wrong firing order. With the coil pack we swapped motors at the track and did not have time to rewire the coil firing order. sounded good in the pits but did not fier 4&7. Now lost 2nd round fcc kansas would not fire. Steal will not fire. Turn on, green light comes on. Turn motor over goes to red. What the Hell? Will not fire? What to do? Larry
     
    #28
    Larry Bradford, Jul 12, 2021
  9. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Here is the best way explained to me to set cam sync sensor:

    Take plug wires off or plugs out (for safety) and turn ignition on. The light on the sensor only goes out when the magnet passes it. You want the light to come back on 30 degrees ahead of where your timing is. So for 27 degrees, you would want the light to go out, then when it comes back on, pointer should be on 57 degrees.

    If the main Power LED light is blinking red, there is an internal fault. If it is orange, it is low voltage.

    You can run the CDI on 12v, but it is recommended to run 16 or 24v to it.
     
    #29
    Will Hanna, Jul 14, 2021
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