MSD Mag Troubles

Here is what Mike Sharp at MSD answered to me when I gave hime a copy of the original post.

Mike, I won't say that if it starts it's good. I have seen occasions where a coil, box or generator will have a problem that will simply cause low output but will indeed still run. If we test the mag we can find those problems without any trouble. I will say that I run into the same thing at the track all the time. As you are well aware I have tested a mag or two in the field in the heat of battle (or the heat of a high level race team's crew chief looking over my shoulder). They often test good and when the racer puts that piece back in the car it runs fine. ??? You got me, but I can promise you that I did no top secret repair while the team wasn't looking. I don't have time for games like that when I am at the race track. In fact the racer is often invited to watch us test his parts. We will explain what we are looking at and what our test procedures are. Here is what happens to parts returned to the factory for repair. When we find problems we charge good money to do the repairs. If the mag looks crusty and tired we will clean it up and put bearings in it even if it tests good. This simply insures better longevity. We never do repairs and then don't tell the customer so we can cover up some mysteries problem. Anybody caught doing that would be in deep &@#$. If we say there is nothing wrong with the mag we will send it back without doing anything to it. If the customer's car now runs just fine it is for a reason other than the ignition parts that we sent to him.

Sorry guys, no top secret stuff here.

 

So if I understand correctly we are talking about two different cars and two different systems. Did anyone take the mag system that was shutting off after one minute to the MSD trailer and get it checked? If so what was found out? Your mag was a known good mag which was just tested and it worked OK on that car, right?

Do you know what the results of MSD testing the two teams you met in the trailer with a misfire problem?

Don't get me wrong here and misunderstand what I am asking. It just seems like we have a lot of unknowns. The only known so far in your posts is your system which had been tested.

 

I am still waiting on a another reply from my inside MSD contact. I think he is recovering from Englishtown. One thing he has told me is that the coil wire needs to be changed on a pretty regular basis because it is used eight times as much as a single plug wire. The coild wire is used everytime a plug fires so it breaks down faster that the plug wires. He kinda indicated that changing it every three of four races is a good idea. That would be a lot cheaper than a whole set of plug wires.

 

here's a little story...

it was mid year 2002. showed up to etown, killer air, the car barely runs .40's with its neck rung out. we blamed not getting after it enough, killer track, etc...(Note these are symptoms of ignition trouble).

go to the next race, getting after it, still not running as well as it should (bristol). marty thacker is wearing our ass out, we decide the car is too heavy. take 55 lbs off it between bristol and atlanta (haase' carbon wing, re-plumb, etc.)

show up to atlanta, car won't get out of it's own way, won't even run 250 mph. mag was sent out to msd, they said it was fine. thacker loads us up pretty easily in r1.

send it off to msd again. its great! drazy tells me to send it to leahy, he says it's fine. go to no problem raceway. first run out of the box, its a turd, won't run 245 mph. one tell tale sign was we were noticing a flickering shift light and spiking on the rpm graph. two different circuits. so we put a brand new box in and a brand new chip in. absolutely no changes, same tune up, bam 5.55, no. 2 qualifier.

alan bradshaw and others had the same problems. change the control box, bam, run good again.

the moral of the story is the conditions these components are raced in are so extreme, they are very difficult to duplicate in test settings. if the car all of a sudden just doesn't seem to have the ass it used to, put a new box and coil on it regardless of what anyone says and see if that does something. if the problem persists, you just saved the money of sending it off, if it fixes it, you just saved alot more time and headache.

however, i do highly recommend dave leahy. his test procedures are far better than msd's. (talk to norm drazy, he'll give you the in depth reason why it's better ).

hope this helps.

 

This is from MSD. One thing MSD recommend to a lot of these guys who have strange problems with their Mags. Before they start shipping parts back and forth to us or Leahy they should just throw a set of plug wires at it. These mags are very tough on spark plug wires and can break down the secondary insulation rather quickly. An alcohol car is worse than a fuel car in this regard due to higher boost, higher compression ratios and low timing numbers. Cylinder pressure is pretty phenomenal at the time of ignition and drives voltages considerably higher than on a fuel car. Testing for continuity is really the only way to test for bad wire. If the continuity is bad it means you have a bad wire for sure. The problem is that if the continuity is good it doesn't mean the wire is good. It could still be leaking voltage. This is the area I find most of the mystery ignition problems.

 

cnitrofumes-

changing ignition systems when you have a problem isn't 'throwing parts at it and hoping to fix it by luck.' when you have an ignition related problem, thats the first thing you need to do. at least change the points box and coil. spare ignition components are some of the very necessary components you need to carry. every team has a different number on what it costs them per run, and then if you're trying to win a race, you really can't afford to throw away runs. taking the 'we're going to change just this one part and see if that fixes it' approach 9 times out of 10 will cost you more money than just changing the ignition parts out right when you suspect a problem. its the same thing you're going to have to do to fix it anyway. send the suspect parts to leahy to get checked out and make them your spares when they get back.

of course you always want to check the obvious - grounds, bad wires, etc. one effective strategy i've seen on many good cars is multiple grounds. that way on ignition components if one wire goes bad, breaks, etc, you still have ground...