fuel pump flowmeter setup

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by rickey, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. rickey

    rickey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    1
    Has anybody built their on flowbench for fuel pump? If yes would you post how and how to do it the right way
     
    #1
  2. aj481x

    aj481x Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    18
    First shop for used, building from scratch is time consuming and expensive. ;)
     
    #2
  3. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    3
    I built mine from scratch and I would have to agree :D

    How to build depends a lot on what you want to accomplish. I wanted to know about my entire system, so mine uses the exact hoses from the vehicle, but I'm not setup real good to check just pumps (although I redoing it now to accomplish this better)
     
    #3
  4. Greg Kelley

    Greg Kelley Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess if you used the flow meter and data system from the race car, then you main expense would be the variable speed motor/gearbox setup.

    GK www.motorsportsinnovations.com
     
    #4
  5. TWD

    TWD Blown alky

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    We did some testing once. Testing the pump is pretty straight forward if you have access to the parts. Start with a variable speed drive motor with a fixture for the pump. Some plumbing, a good pressure and flow meter and then a valve to keep the discharge pressure at a constant level. Problem now of course is that if you want to know exactly what is happening, then everything needs to be calibrated or rediculously stable, otherwise you will not see differences caused by wear / tear.
    Doing it the right way for consistent results over years of use requires serious effort, so when we're in doubt we now ship it to somebody with a flow bench.
     
    #5
  6. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    189
    Unless you are the business of flowing people's system then really there is no reason to go to the trouble and expense of having a flow bench. It is far better to have a flow meter on the car and record it on the instrumentation recorded then input that data into Les Davenport's Jetsize software. You can calibrate Jetsize to your car in one run then every run is a flow bench run after that.
     
    #6
  7. hemiracer2

    hemiracer2 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    IFM ultrasonic flow meters , A VFD drive to drive your three phase motor & crap load of time , I am finishing two flowbenches right now , They both have 3 flowmeters on each one to monitor flow . I had to build my own , because I am running turbos with mechanical injection & also have a boost sensor station built on it , I will take data from the car to the bench & visa versa . Nobody can give me the magical prescription to hit it right on , I had Don Enrique set the preliminary system & is been doing turbo set up for years , but as with the turbo deal & changes very quickly so I knew I had to have my own bench .
     
    #7
  8. NITROBANDIT1

    NITROBANDIT1 LOST IN SPACE

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    2
    Flow my bench

    I have a flowbench that jerry at crower built years ago. can go 80gpm with variable 3 phase motor can go either direction. give me a email address I can send you some pics of it. chess bushy used it, but he also said the computer on his car was saying exactly what the bench said, so they stopped using the bench and went off the flowmeters on chess car. this thing isn't beautiful,but got the job done. also in the book lowe writes , he says a lot about his flowbenches he has built over the years. dan
     
    #8
  9. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    3
    Teach me what Davenport's software can do. For instance, recently I wanted to lean my engine at a lower RPM but not at a high RPM. I thought to myself, oh I've done this before, just turn the high speed on a little sooner. I decided to put everything on the fuel bench and verify this would be the case. Good thing I did, because it effected the high RPM much much more then I thought.

    Would Jetsize do this for me?
     
    #9
  10. rickey

    rickey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    1
    if you were already using the highspeed how would turning it on sooner effect the high rpm differently?
     
    #10
  11. Comax Racing

    Comax Racing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    7
    Unless the highspeed is an electric solenoid isn't it going to stay open past the pre-set crack point? It won't work at low pressure and not at high, so I would imagine it would effect everything after its crack pressure? Right?

    Corey
     
    #11
  12. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    189
    I agree with Rickey. The term "High Speed" it pretty misleading because most turn it on in the 40-60 psi fuel pressure area and if you look at your fuel pressure that occurs pretty well right at launch or soon after it. The standard fuel system guidelines is to have around 120-130 psi of fuel pressure at 8000 rpm. It is pretty well impossible to use a poppet type bypass to lean out the lower RPMs. You really need an air or electrical controlled bypass on a timer or RPM switch.

    Now lets talk about Jetsize. You can use or calibrate Jetsize for 8000 rpm or 9000 rpm in first gear, or second gear or any gear you want. You can have three saved Jetsize runs for an engine, one in each gear. You can in fact calibrate for 7000 rpm if you are a real low rpm type of guy. The most common practice is 8000 and 9000 rpm in high gear. On some motors you can't use 8000 rpm because the only time you see it is passing through it right after launch. One the tricks here is that whatever you use has to be what the fuel system is doing at that rpm chosen. So lets say I used 8000 or 9000 rpm in first gear as one of my data points which I believe what SoDak is asking for. At the point I then I have to also include all the bypasses that are turned on at that time so I get what is happening at that point in RPM. Now for my second RPM point I can use 8000 or 9000 in high gear and all the bypasses that are turned on at that time. Never include a bypass that is turned off. So I will use the same Jetsize Tuning Modifier for my first gear point as with my high gear point. Now I can compare the fuel flows and setups in first gear and in high gear and adjust accordingly. Like I said the first thing you will discover is that you cannot use a poppet controlled bypass for leaning out just low rpm. You can make it into a real high speed by setting the poppet at 130 psi. Now you will be rich down low and lean up high but not sure anyone would want to do that to a blown motor, lol. So did I totally confuse all.
     
    #12
  13. rickey

    rickey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have a very basic Excel spreadsheet that if you know pump flow and all jet sizes it will tell you amount of fuel in hat and motor

    I tried to figure out how to post it for download but was not able

    if you want it to play with it help me post it or email me and i will send to you

    rickeyl@otelco.net
     
    #13
  14. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    3
    This is what I thought too and I know I've checked this on one of our other engines (on the flowbench)

    I have my suspicions that I'll check later, probably after the season is over
     
    #14
  15. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    3
    Correct, so if you open it at a lower psi/lower RPM it will lean at a lower RPM without effecting the higher RPM, but in this particular case (for whatever reason) it did lean the higher RPM also, not as much as the lower. Which is why I like having a flow bench so I can check my actual system and make sure it does what I want it to.

    PS Hindsight I would have called it a return poppet vs a high speed.
     
    #15
  16. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    3

    I've done it on one of my other engines.

    I should not have called it a High Speed but regardless its a spring poppet.
     
    #16
  17. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    189
    If you turn on the high speed at 60 psi or 80 psi it effects the fuel flow the whole run because it will not turn off until the pressure drops below the set point. Another way to look at a high speed is an extension of the main jet circuit. It allows you to use a smaller (richer) main jet. You can use it to keep the main jet size within a certain range. It is really a pump sizer. What is the difference between turning on a pump sizer loop with a 60 jet and a 40 psi poppet than turning on a high speed with a 60 jet and a 40 psi poppet. Nothing. I could never understand why people would say tune it first with the high speed turned off then turn it on and you will go faster. If you tune the motor with it turned off so you have a 50% frosty plugs at 1050 degrees and you open a 60 main jet you are going to go super lean and possibly hurt the motor unless you reduce the area of the main jet by the area of the high speed then the tuneup will be the same. Unless you just want the high speed to keep the main jet within a certain size it is far better to use a air or electric solenoid that you can turn on and off where you want it.
     
    #17
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  18. Comax Racing

    Comax Racing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    7
    OK, but how can it not effect the higher RPM because the poppet will still be open? As the rpm goes up so will the pressure, the poppet couldn't close at a higher pressure, so it stands to reason it will effect things all the way AFTER it opens?


    Corey
     
    #18
  19. TOL

    TOL Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,352
    Likes Received:
    18
    Sort of back onto the original topic......anyone got a decent working fuel system/pump flow bench that they want to sell? Would prefer nitro capable, but have an open mind. Details to whome@look.ca or 905-263-4599. Thanks.
     
    #19
  20. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    3
    We are all not quite on the same page. In my comparison, both runs are with the poppet opening, its just that one is opening at a different RPM. So yes to Mike I agree if you are comparing opening it vs not opening it then yes it will change the higher RPM.

    My point was to let the original poster hear my opinion, and that is, there is what you think is happening and then there is what is actually happening, sometimes our perception is correct and sometimes not. That's why my flow bench is setup to run my entire system to verify my perceptions/theories.
     
    #20

Share This Page