Wedge Injected Nitro series proposed

I realize the following has no affect on most here but I am looking for feedback wherever I can find it.

Wedge Injected Nitro Series

I was asked by a midwest promoter to come up with an injected nitro dragster class with certain parameters. Here is what I came up with. IF it comes to pass it will be announced in the next month or two. IF not, no loss.
Bear with me...the first post is a tad long.

I know I will hear some groans here and there so here are the parameters I had to deal with.
Look at it from the promoters standpoint and not your own current agenda/combo. Give it some thought and then let fly.

The promoter wants:
A restricted nitro class where other than the SFI stuff tech had to be at a absolute minimum.
A 10.5 tire rule
Consideration for component usage that would attract contingency sponsors.
Hoped for high 6s without too much carnage.
Some form of brand diversity.

I looked at what was available off the shelf for Chevy, Chrysler and Ford small blocks. I then looked at the possible bore/stroke combos to figure out what cubic inch limit should be put into place. FWIW I almost want to go smaller.

Pump: Promoter wanted the usual X,Y, Z mfg pumps since 1 mfg proposed to make a specific pump for the class. (contingency thing again). I thought once the mfg finds out there might only be 20 sold that would go away. I wanted one readily available to all off the shelf now and tomorrow.
Therefore I am pushing for a specific, mandated pump be used. This is done to avoid the cluster**** that always ensues with nitro. No one needs that. Besides,.... they wanted simple tech and this is it.

Clutch: Promoter wants powerglide only. The idea was that the pglide mfgs would pony up contingency. True but I noted that 99% of the potential group or at least the last 2 or 3 generations will choose the glide anyway because that's all they know. I pushed for the clutch for the veteran group (old dudes) that think powerglides are pussified and might actually give this a shot. Personally I think the automatic has the edge due to the torque multiplication.

Mag limit was chosen because there is one available for all 3 engine brands.

10.5 Tire size: Turns out there is only 1 actual measured 10.5 tire so that had to change in order to get some height variety and mfg variety.

Weight: You will notice that there is no mention of minimum weight. Not going to fight that fight either. Besides, who has scales other that national event tracks?

Oh, and not one thought was given to whether it was period correct, the cheapest way to do things or whether it fit anyone's current combo. It has to be done with parts that are available now, off the shelf and readily available to anyone.

This is a new incarnation of a JrFuel (nitro) class that has grown in stature, stories, lies and romance the longer it's gone.
This is the closest I can come to what Pappy created years ago at Lions with modern parts availability.

An interesting side of this is that there is no reason these same cars could not compete in the 7.0 indexes already available in the Midwest or the other way around.

I and the promoter are interested to see if there is any real interest in something like this and would like to hear your thoughts. Could you? Would you? Right idea, wrong economy?

Now, thanks for your patience in reading the above.

Click the following link for a pdf file with the whole deal. Read it, Ponder, Respond.
http://www.koehlerinjection.com/pdf/WIN_nitro_rules.pdf

 

Dave, unless I missed it you didn't mention type of chassis.....FED....RED?? Is it any chassis?
Were does this promoter see this class going performance wise?

I mean you got AE/D running 6.80's very regular and dipping into the 6.70's with a few on alcohol now.


PS... I read the pdf, but it only says "Front engine dragster must run this spec" does not say FED only so there is still a question about the chassis limitations if any.
Also I would recommend spec'ing the "floater read" to aline with NHRA's 6.00 and not the 6.50 which had a lot of confusion about in the past.

Blessings........Ron Clevenger............Creekside Racing Ministry

 

Hi Ron,
Section 1, Line #2 perhaps?

On the rear end. I suspect most would do the floater but following the Advanced ET specs covers it. Only looking for high 6s.

 

I suspect this will be a NOSTALGIA THING,....but why limit injected nitro to just dragsters
it would open the door up to any of the current stack injected alcohol funny cars to join the class, along with the altereds to,..as long as they run Nitro.
I think you need to be more specific in the intentions of this structure, and who will benifit from it...???...If you make this out to be for just a restructured Jr.fuel class then anyone else without a front motored dragster will be shit out of luck,..guess the promoter and track owner dont care about the bigger picture, oh say about the wow factor of having an open injected fuel class that would draw in more than just dragster fans, can you imagine diggers running against injected nitro funny cars as they did in 1973 before most all the floppers switched to blowers,..I think even rear engine dragsters could be included too,..why not,..its about the WOW FACTOR, and what will put money in the pockets of the track owner and promoters, they need entertainers for the show, and the people need to be entertained to keep their butts in the seats,..oh its a race, but it is also a show that would need to sell to keep the guys that right the the checks to us happy.
FED, RED, Funny cars, and Altereds all pre 1982 bodies for flops,..
absolutly NO MORPHING OR DWARFING (NO NEWSTALGIA MODIFICATIONS)
500ci max , 13 gpm max pump,.single points mag, min weight 1900lbs,.any tire
I say any tire because if you have a halibrand 16x13 wheel you are extremely limited to tire width,..12 or right to 17 wide,
I can easily see 6.80`s to 7.20 class,..its about the nitro,..period!!!!!


Slick Vic

 

Vic,
Thanks for chiming in.
1: I am working on what I was asked to define.
2: What you want is an index class.
No one in their right mind would take on such a thing as you propose and deal with the parity issues. Yesterday is gone.

 

No thats not what Im saying at all,..Index racing is for throttle stop cars.
The first question I asked was assuming this would be a nostalgia thing,..yes or no
if it is yes then what you run and have on your car would be the limiting factor to the ET`s,..If you are talking about any car running then the sky is the limit and it would just become another outlaw class,..
Pro nostalgia in the Northwest cars run in excess of 6.50`s with injected nitro and blown
on alcohol,.If a limiting pump is to be used that would keep the Et`s in check, I mearly looked at 1973 as a base line engine cofiguration and combos, yet most of them injected nitro cars all had stack injection and not a monster tunnel ram with a hat on top.
No im not trying to relive the past, I was mearly trying to figure out where you would want this class to be based around.
Yes yesterday is gone but the stands were packed and there were a shit load of cars,...and still tomorrow will be the same, as it was today.
Again NO on the index,..your engine rules will limit that for you,..if you stick to them and enforce them that will keep a level playing field,..

Vic

 

Updated the pdf file in post 1.
Clarified a couple of things.
Took out the possibility for a person of money to load it up with titanium and carbon fiber.
(still a few things to fix)
Thanks to all who have contributed by pointing out the details.

 

Ohhhhh,..I see,..Its a dragster thing Only,...!!!!!!



Long Live Funny cars,
AA/FC, BB/FC,..A/FC,..Pro Comp,..Comp eliminator

 

Back to the Wedge Injected Nitro class for a moment.

Download the updated pdf in the first post.

I think I was originally trying to please too many and allow too many combinations. I needed to narrow it down some more to level the performance and financial field while simplifying tech even further. It also became apparent that this would not attract any injected nitro cars already built and running. So... it needed to be even more "clean sheet".

1: For reasons of simplicity all around it is now a SB chevy, ford, chrysler only class.
2: Weight was a concern for many even if it's not a big deal. Eliminated carbon fiber and titanium
wherever feasible.
3: Cylinder heads was a concern for me as I had already figured out how to push it way beyond the
the intended rule and others would too. It would become a top 4 rich mans game and car count
would go away along with the series in short order.

Therefore.
1: I have changed to spec heads.

2: Cast iron block only.

3: Limited Hat choices to suit the heads and cubic inch. Though not a concern it kind of helps initial costs a little also.

4: Added dual chutes mandatory. This is a personal thing. Some of these cars will need all the help they can get. Maybe it's not a big deal.

5: Changed to powerglide only spec.

6: Added a rule for a primer warm up system in the injection section.

8: Added a rule to the tow vehicle section about fire extinguishers.

Personally I think Pappy would approve.

Well,,,, sit down, watch the awesome espn races tonite and beat this up.

For everyone else that this doesn't fit, hang loose. Still working on the 6.8 ET cap format.

Dave Koehler
http://www.koehlerinjection.com

 

Understand the Powerglide only thing,but without a clutch/planetary type transmisson acceptance there are a small majority that will not jump in the fray.
I for one would seriously consider doing this if a clutch/Lenco were allowed,in the long run I feel it would be more financially sound,and safer.
Also,why not an Olds block,or Buick (any GM)?
And iron heads.Let the guy in that does'nt want to follow the norm.
The top runners will be the trick,small block Chevy/Powerglide anyway,right?

 

Why small block only ?? If you used a cubic inch limit, like 400 cid, many existing combos would be legal, or could be modified to conform (smaller stroke crank) let the BBC's and Hemi's play too !!

 

I agree that the powerglide is likely a poor choice but there are some excellent parts available out there these days. Making it all work together is the trick and that may prove to be an interesting aspect to the class. It's probably the main concession to what's out there and what the majority of potential participants are used to. It also solves the real or imagined weight arguments and perceived advantage by each side between it and a clutch setup.

Please understand that for the promoter this is a clean sheet "class".... not a fit all ET Cap deal.
Therefore it has to be rigidly restricted to keep tech to a minimum.
Please look at it from that standpoint and find the loopholes and omissions.
It may actually be a lot of fun as I tried to factor out the the need for those capable of doing so to throw unlimited funds at it. Hence the spec head and pump.

Hang loose. I have an 6.8 ET Cap thing just about worked out for the rest of the world. I prefer this also as nothing I own currently fits the class thing. If the WIN class is the only affordable nitro game in town then I will make the switch somehow.
The ET cap is the backup plan but for now the promoter insists that it's not on their radar.

IF the 6.8 ET Cap is of interest, please drop an email to me at ->
nitro AT koehler1.com
If you already have a center steer, front engine dragster, altered or funny car that can go un-blown injected nitro, tell me a little about
the car, your location, your thoughts, etc and send a pic.
I am creating a database of potential participants.
Vic, are you listening?

Before anyone whines about the 6.8 being too quick for their current combo, man up.
You have to offer something the track owner will buy in hopes of pulling in a few more spectators.
Nitro sells, Stink and thunder sells, 6s sell, 200 mph sells, Front engine sells.
Everything else is perceived as just another fast bracket car.
And 6.9 sounds too much like....well you know.

Thanks for the feedback
Dave Koehler
http://www.koehlerinjection.com

 

Having tried to put something like this together a while ago via HRE.com, I can tell you first hand (and understand) how difficult putting something like this together can be.

Everyone has their favorite rules package and wow, can you believe it, it's what they already run! lol

While many SAY they would run nitro in the 85% range, my feeling is not many actually would even with their existing equipment. As everyone on here is well aware, putting nitro in the tank is not that simple OR cheap.

So, from my point of view, 410 inch limit. Any motor.
No Billet heads or blocks
Lower power points mag tagged to some specific amp range to be determined.
Establish a max fuel flow spec. Not a spec pump but spec gpm. No overdrives
All run, dragsters, altereds, funnies
No other rules other than safety related to Advanced ET tag.
Let the track determine if they want just dragsters or all run.

If you must, come up with a lbs per cubic inch rule. If the rule is there, some tracks will have scales, some won't but at least there's a spec.

With the above rules it would be fairly easy to enforce. A tech guy just looks at the tags and that's it.
I don't care what you come up with for a rules package, cubic money will win.
Open it up and get the cars on nitro is the main thing.

Yes, I would build for this class but only if I feel there would be enough car count to support it.
I don't see that happening with dragsters only but I've been wrong before.
Throw it wide open and I DO see it working.

Just an opinion,
East Coast Bob Bradley

 

Since I dont have a car in this fight Ill speak as a spectator. Its not been around for a while but MY favorite was IHRAs Pro Outlaw. It had another name too for a year or so. It was all heads up, big and small blocks, gas and alky, injection and carbs, blowers and nitrous, altereds and dragsters. I really dont remember the limiting factors (weight limits and such) but most everyone ran in the same ballpark.

Again, as a spectator I loved it. I was shopping for more power to get in on the fun when the class was axed.

Now Im just a broke azz trucker that would like to get the car together and just do some bracket racing. Given the chance someday in the midwest (Iowa), I wouldnt be opposed to investing in some nitro.

 

Beat this up.
http://www.koehlerinjection.com/pdf/WIN_nitro_rules.pdf

Added a minimum weight. This allowed me to eliminate all the worry over titanium and carbon fiber spenders.
This also allowed the addition of Altereds.

Dave Koehler
http://www.koehlerinjection.com

 

The promoter has nixed the altered idea. His reasons were plausible from his viewpoint so that's the way it is. I tried.
So...it's a small block digger deal for sure. Sorry if I gave a short car hope.

http://www.koehlerinjection.com/pdf/WIN_nitro_rules.pdf

 

Rejoice
I got the 10.5 tire rule thrown out.
The new tire rule is.... there is no rule.
This should be entertaining in the other direction of over-tiring a car.
http://www.koehlerinjection.com/pdf/WIN_nitro_rules.pdf

 

Updated. Find it here. http://www.koehlerinjection.com/tech-articles.html

 

There are 6-8 cars in your area me included,but for the most part we run 14" tires, clutch and trans,and billit heads and cast blocks. Some have cast heads with cast steel blocks but not many. I think it would be hard to find any one that could push a cast small block that hard on 85% and I dont know that nhra lets a guy run that much nitro with a powerglide. Oh yeah and I have a 44 amp mag. and we are hemi cars.
I would love to do something east of the rockies,so let me know if ya can go more our way..