Car counts

Safety Upgrades.

A bit off topic but relevant -

Dale H and others...one thing to be aware of:

The real nasty wrecks I've seen this year have come from the Q-16 and TS type cars. Be prepared for carbon brakes and Leahy equipment headed your way soon.

The real bad TS crash in Denver could have been completely avoided with a Leahy Safety Box to shut things down after the finish.

This stuff works and works well and the costs are much higher without it. In property and lives. I would never go back to running without it.


Kevin Hool
The Ghost TAFC
http://kandkmotorsports.com

 

Difference

Dale,
That's about the same performance difference between Top Alcohol and Top Fuel. And there have been Top Fuel fields that my TA/D would qualify for too! Speed costs.
You do have some good points on differentiating our alky cars from the fast bracket cars. Real race fans know the difference, but the general public usually just know what the announcers tell them. I get so mad when we follow the pros and after the last pair of fuel cars, you hear the announcer tell the people leave the stands and go watch the Pro teams work on there cars. The announcers have alot more influence on what the crowd thinks and does than alot of people realize. A good announcer can MAKE a succesful event.
It would be nice if all the NHRA brass would vote themselves pay cuts and poney up to take care of the racers, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. We need to find ways to help the alky classes ourselves, and keep the dream alive.
Keep em comin,
Marty

 

Marty Thacker

Marty, That is one of the best postings I have seen here in a long time. It really is a dream isn't it? Every one of us is living a dream, hoping it will just keep going. What a nightmare it would be if the NHRA cancelled out the Top Alcohol classes? I am not ready to go fishing on the weekends for the rest of my life. Dave Germain

 

safety

Kevin,you're not off topic. I've had the Leahy box since before it was required and think it is the best spent money ever.I'd love to see it recommended to ALL classes that exceed 160 1/8 mile and 200 1/4 mile..with a warning as to when it will be made mandatory(preferably more than the week that seems to be the newly acceptable warning time).The biggest improvement needed RIGHT NOW is that ALL sanctioned tracks should be required to have an operating finishline system at all times to accomodate anyone who chooses to add it to their car...I do matchracing and it really bothers me that my safety is only considered during divisionals and national events. We were required to add carbon brakes instantly and the tracks were not required to add these systems which cost WAAAY less.Sooner or later that inconsistancy is going to bring a big legal payday to some unfortunate racer.

 

If we are talking car counts, there are some top dragsters out there that are capable of running sub 6 second runs and could have qualified at some of the divisional races, even some with low car counts, but they don't fit the rules because they have an OEM type transmission and an onboard starter. If they have all the required safety items, I think that they should allowed to run with the big boys if they so choose. As far as rules, I agree with the saftey box and the carbon brake rule. What I don't agree with is how little time was given for the last few rule changes. I would love to see a large, big deal, big pay out alcohol event, on an off weekend where everyone that wanted could make it and the track actually promotes the race and packs the stands. I think the real root of the car count problem is caused by two things, the fact that track owners are pushing towards a back gate type of event and fail to promote them as a mini National event like they should, which makes them 'loose money' and in turn want to cut the payout that hasn't went up in a long time. The other being the rising of local, outlaw type racing which usually offers free admission for the driver and 2-3 crew and a better payout with less travel then going to a National or Divisional. If NHRA does away with the Alky classes, then what will be the stepping stone for driving a fuel car? Since NHRA is promoting the anniversary thing, maybe the Alky guys should put a little something together about the history of the class, ET and MPH barriers, champions and tributes to those who have moved on to the 'big show.' Explain to the fans how 'the system' works, because to be truthful, its confusing as hell in its current format, and people are a little hesitant about something when they don't understand it. When I go to a National event it is to see the Alky cars, because that is what I grew up with and that is what I like. I could really car less about the fuel cars now because they all use basically the same parts and pieces, and what it really comes down to is management; it seems more like spec racing then anything else.

 

Don't shoot me

Will and friends,
Just want to reiterate that this is not being proposed to NHRA at this time. We are just trying to gather opinions on what the racers would want if NHRA says there is going to be a major change. Right now that looks eminant. I would love to keep things as they are, but right now there are not enough alky teams running to adequately support it. And I would sure rather see a new system that the racers get some input on, than a system made up only by the suits, or worse yet no alky classes at all.
Again, this map was only made up to pass among ourselves and see how to devide the active teams up in an even matter.
Keep it polite please,
Marty

 

This is why the refining specialists make the big bucks.

Brandon Booher
NHRA TAD #34

 

There is nothing on the face of the planet that will level the playing field, bring down the cost and increase car counts faster than one motor per event... and you know it. You're just scared to death that it might happen. I'd love to see how many tuners would try to run low 50's knowing the next pass could be their last. And by the way - that's how a lot of us have raced for years. Yes, we may have a back up motor. It's a normally a piece of junk, made up of blown up junk we bought from the guys trying to run low 50's.

 

While I'm not running my car right now I'll still respond to this.

Limiting the number of engines isn't going to do anything except hurt the guy who may not be running the best parts. Or, it will make people who did hurt an engine (who would have under normal circumstances changed engines) run an engine that should not be run.

For example, you explode a lifter and the needle bearings are everywhere. Better to change the engine and take the hurt engine apart at the shop than take a chance running one with junk through it. Or, if the rear main is blackened, better to change it than sand paper the crank and JB Weld the main cap.

I have 3 engines that have all run multiple 5.50's, yet I can count on one hand how many times we've changed engines in the last 10 years because we had to. Telling me I can only run one per weekend wouldn't effect my plans at the track at all. I'd still run it as hard as I could.

What is killing car counts right now is the economy and transportation costs. Fuel is very expensive, as are plane tickets and motel rooms. Plus, most of the people who run these cars are business owners who are getting bashed by the new health care laws and regulations and are afraid to spend extra money right now. Many are faced with the choice of trying to save the jobs of key people in their businesses or spend money racing their cars. An easy decision if you ask me.

RG

 

Will - I knew you wouldn't like it

 

That's a Good One !!

You know it Brandon !!

 

What does limiting motors have to do with car counts? Just because one guy has 7 motors to burn every race isn't going to affect if the guy with one shows up or not. Going off Mr. Anderika's stats and the current points, there's around 60 cars sitting idle in the last two years. Nearly everyone who's responded on this thread has run multiple events this year (or tuned cars that have). The guys whose cars are sitting are the ones that need to be contacted as to why they're not racing anymore.

 

5.50's

Whats wrong with running 50's -40's or faster?

If the people in the stands, that in the end pay the bills like to see these performance numbers, than our job is to produce exactly what they want.

The job is not to try to sell our position in the sport to NHRA. It must be sold to the consumer. If that can be accomplished NHRA, and all of the Division tracks will be happy to host division events. Maybe the job is in there court?????

PRO MOD is a big draw. In other country's the fans prefer a Door Slammer (PRO MOD) event to T/F.

In this country the fan base has lost interest in Top Alcohol.
Maybe it's not the fan base, maybe it's the entertainment that is not being provided. Or may be the lack of something?

The Consumer has no concern about the cost to put on the show. Their concern is the cost to see this event with the family of three or four. The larger the attendance the less it should cost this family. If the cost to see this show is to high, it may be a better decision to attend Disney World.

If the customer is not buying the product, we need to ask them why, and provide them with something they will buy.

This subject is far deeper than the scope of this site allows.

Marketing is an important part of everything we do in life. It can not center on the needs of each person involved. It must consider the needs of the customer.
The Customer should be asked what they want. Not what the entertainer wants.

A survey was taken in Australia on this same subject, this year. The results stopped in my tracks.

My suggestion is that all of us, Racers, Manufactures, Promoters, Race track Owners, ask our selves,

What is the desire of the customer.

Noel

 

#1 - my new slogan - CUT CAP AND BALANCE. cut the cost of racing by capping the number of motors and balance out the playing field. #2 - how many fans that go to a division race know the difference between a 70 and a 40. but they do know sudden death, and they sure as hell know reality shows. maybe a one motor concept could generate some interest.

 

Sounds like you want to dumb down the classes to the lowest common demoninator.

If there was a one motor rule and it was hurt I'd patch and glue it back together to run the next round until they threw me out for oiling the track or burning the car to the ground if that meant winning the next round.

I'd have a case of JB weld, fast hardening resin, plenty of aluminum welding rod and 10 rolls of duct tape and 10 cases of paper towels in the trailer ready to go if that would allow me to make the next round. Then I'd deal with the leftover junk when I got home. I imagine Payne and everyone else would do the same thing. Now how is that cheaper (or safer) in the long run, because (like I said) I wouldn't back it down, especially if I had to race you.

RG


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Northern comments

Glad to see that 'regional map' included us Canadian Folks...wouldn't want to have to start up an TAD/TAFC Ice Racing Division...
I have not read every word of every thread, but there were lots of comments on safety, costs, 'one motor' weekends, fast TS & TD classes, and much more.
Has any thought gone into having every class run to 1,000'?
*I've blown my share of shit up over the years, it's always been in that last 300' of the run...
*Most crashes in TD & TS (more TS than TD) happen near the end, those cars are getting real quick, and it is really easy for a 7.50 driver to upgrade to 6.0 without really knowing how to handle these super-quick cars.
*Even SC...most know are t-stopping so much that they hit the eyes at 180+ mph...and many of them are only licensed to 8.50...

Fans won't know the differance from one to the other; most are packed at the line & just look down at the scoreboards.
It would also let us push a bit more earlier on in the run, as we know we are not riding it out at stupid rpm for the last sec or so.

Easier on parts, safer (as we are shutting down much further from the safety net / straw bales / river), and hell, probably only one chute to pack...
Any cost saving will possibly bring back more cars...or at the very least keep what's in...in.

Just a thought from the North.

Clif

 

We have discussed this topic in our group for some time, reading Duane and Marty's ideas really line up with our idea of how to save the Alcohol cars.With less Divisional and perhaps less National races along with a redistribution of the purses should encourage more racers to return to racing. The western regions would need to have Sonoma, Denver and Phoenix support the Alcohol category once again.
Where we are located it costs us the same amount to travel to a divisional as it does a National event. If some one is counting, 2 qualifying sessions are OK with us plus make these races 2 days maximum.
Best Regards
Cal Bellamy
Kenny Gilmour Motorsports
TAD 6121