Time for an alcohol/NHRA reorganization?

I've had this idea kickin around in my head for a bit. Will, you like to throw crazy stuff like this out every once in a while so here goes.
This whole thing is based on the question of : How much does everyone like the current format of having to run 16 races (8 and 8) to compete for a national championship each year?

I personally will never be able to do that, not running the cars as hard as we do now, and keeping up with the maintenance involved. I just mocked up a 10 race schedule and it looks heavy but possible and fun. Last year, between 5 different cars I worked on or raced, I went to 25 out of state events... I'm still tired. Haha.

We all complain about the pay being stuck in the early 90's and Divisional races providing little to no exposure for sponsorship. (Possibly because the $$$$ is being spread across approximately 50 events and 7 division title chases) I don't know the specifics, but TF and AAFC used to run divisionals but no longer do. Did they reach the point we are at now? In a sense, tracks don't want us at divisionals and we kind of don't want to be there either but we have to for points. If there's no alcohol at these events, they can run them in 2 days instead of 3 and their back door races that they want are complete.

Here's the glimmer of an idea that needs refinement, but may be a new direction that everyone (TA Racers, NHRA, and tracks) may agree on. The 16 event national schedule remains the same. The Divisionals we no longer have to worry about running at all. The Sportsnationals will be expanded from 3 to 7 (1 located in every division) with Alcohol cars being the headliners (16 car fields just like at the nationals) (As a side note, the classes below us would like additional chances to earn national points as well since each class keeps being allowed at fewer and fewer national events). The tracks that are willing to promote these events to attract spectators, and can provide safe conditions for the more powerful cars will recieve these events. For example, Denver's Divisional in D5 which always has a huge crowd will be exchanged for the D5 Sportsnational. That track appreciates the show Alcohol racing provides and is willing to promote it. They deserve a larger field for that event.

So now with 16 nationals and 7 Sportnationals to earn points at (23 total, half of the current number of races), the $$$$$ that Lucas puts toward paying the top 3 in 7 different divisions would go toward the purses at the Sportsnationals and increasing the number of places paid for the national points standings. (Ex: Pay the entire top 10)

Now the points system would need to be altered to where the championship is determined by the first 10 events a competitor attends where Sportnationals and nationals count for the same amount. (Imagine, a round 3 loss being worth the same points at every race...) Or we could count the best 10 of 14... or however the majority decides would be best for the class. We still count 10 races, but the competition at those races should be a higher quality since having to run fewer races should result in greater attendance. (IE: no more 3 car fields at divisionals rewarding someone who won 1 round with the same points it takes to win the US nationals...) (Sidenote: That's not directed at anyone. It just seems to happen alot with the current system)

I see alot of teams get burned out by deciding to run for a championship. It takes a grundle of effort and time and $$$$$ to run 16 races and half of those events we feel like we shouldn't even be there. I know we get treated like second class citizens at nationals but we are second class citizens at nationals. Most of us don't do it full time. It's not our job. When it becomes a job it isn't fun anymore. In the last 10 years the cars and equipment have evolved to where running a full 16 race schedule with a crew of 4, that you basically have to have (Unless you're an asshole like me and you can only find maybe 1 friend to help), has escalated the costs to unsustainable levels.

I guess the question is, since these are the only heads-up classes NHRA offers to non-professionals on their big stage, and it doesn't seem like they want us to become a professional class, and most of us can't afford it to become a professional class, would restructuring the points system and event schedule to sustain reasonable car counts and competitive fields help the class to thrive?


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Cody "Flash" Perkins BSME
flash568@gmail.com

 

I just don,t get it ?

Like most Pro sports there is the learing curve to reach the top, like in Hockey or Baseball there is the Junior level that trains and developes players to move up to the pro ranks. In Pro Drag racing ( Top Fuel and Funnycar ) you think NHRA would get there new crop of drivers from the Alcohol Ranks TAD and TAFC. The Training Ground ! the Farm team ! Makes total sense.....

If this source of talant in the TAD and TAFC dry up... do to lack of Support in the class by NHRA were are the next crop of drivers comming from ?? That is just stupid thinking by NHRA...What is Don Prudhomme going to come out of retirment or John Force will be driving at age 80 ?

The natural Stepping stone is to fill the TF and FC seats with Drivers from the TAD/TAFC ranks .....NHRA wake up and smell the coffee, you canot keep treating the TAD/TAFC class as second class citizens.

I can not belive how much money it takes to run on of these cars to be competitive , not counting the endless hours of time. Why has the payout money not been increased, why has Pro Mod leapfroged over the TAD/TAFC Class for exposure ?? ( not that there is a problem with Pro Mod Class but who came first !)

I just Don,t get it !

Cheers
TVP

 

One word.. Money. There are very few instances anymore where the best driver for the job actually gets the job. About 80-85% of the Pro ranks are driven by self funded or family funded drivers. There may be sponsors on the side of the car, but don't fool yourself into thinking a sponsor(s) is picking up 100% of the tab. Its a very rare occasion anymore where the proven talented racers from the Pro Sportsman and Sportsman ranks are given a shot in the Pros unless the driver has substantial financial backing.

Pro Mod to some degree is still treated like Alcohol, they just get more recognition because they have a class sponsor who happens to also drive.

 

and now back to the original question .......

Sounds like a really good idea Cody. I will be interested in seeing feedback from other racers, but it makes sense that if you really wanted to go after a championship, it might become somewhat affordable. I don't necessarily agree that the divisionals should lose the alcohol cars, maybe those that still want them, or typically have high alky car counts, could still bring them in. Maybe no points, but a higher payout?

 

Bingo.

Get Wal*Mart to sponsor the alky series with some seriously huge $$ and watch the love fest in hot rod land begin.

BTW, Not taking anything away from Lucas. Lucas is a great sponsor for the sportsman series.

RG

 

Thanks for the initial comments,

I got a message from Mike Rice today basically agreeing 100% with your theory. I like the regional series as well! I think the unsubstantial event payout concern remains with that or is even multiplied since then you still only have 1 track burdened with the cost of a field that would've been dispersed over 2 to 3 events. (I hope that makes sense. You cut the # of games in half but still have the same # of players. Are they still runnin for $2500 but just with stiffer competition?)

I didn't get into specifics because it is just the beginings of an idea. This class has grown past the point where everyone has a race in their back yard. When everyone has a race in their back yard only a few can come play... The # of quality alky cars can not be spread across 50 + events a year.

Maybe #'s will turn up some spirits?

As for the $ for the 7 additional events coming from the existing 40+ events I have some ideas. I did run the numbers before and looked at the shortages. Page 62 in the Nov. 26 issue of ND shows the current pay structure. Nationally its $37,500 win $15,000 RU/ class. So that's $105,000 for both classes. Divisionally its $8500=1 $4000=2 $2500=3. So $30,000 per division for $210,000. Giving us $315,000 to redistribute for both classes.

Paying a $67,000 Alky bill for the track that gets the Sportnat would be a tough pill to swallow. That being said, hopefully our costs of running a Sportnat would be more reasonable than a national event so if the payout isn't as impressive then we can live with it. ($85 per ticket per crew memeber/ family member/ business associate... adds up fast) If, out of that $315,000, $175,000 went to help event payouts this could possible be the new pay structure. Each event now gets $25,000 from lucas and the track gets twice the show, they should be willing to go for $28,000. (75% increase in $$$ for AT LEAST 2X the show. Turning what many tracks feel is like flushing 16k down the drain into a serious show that should be able to pack the grandstand.) Now we have a total of $53,000. $26,500 per class. (4000=Win, 2500=RU, 2000=Semi, 1500=R2, 1250 to qualify) Not as much as a true national event, but remember, you didn't have to buy 8 tickets at $85 a piece to get into this event...

So the remaining $140,000 is distributed among the top 10 in each class...? The total for each would be $70,000 (35k=#1, 15k=#2, 8k=#3, 4k=#4, 2.5k=#5, 1.5k=6-10) I know it's not amazing, so I'm going to focus more on the event payout which seems to be the bigger complaint?

Where does the Divisional level contingency money that's promised to the alky cars for 40+ events go? If we take all that purse and consolidate it to 7 events I see no reason why we can't reach national event levels. If winning a Sportnat receives a $300 check instead of a $50 or $100 then it would be totally worth it. (Side note, the classes running sport nationals now receive national event contingency)

I truely believe a 16 car field of top quality TAD and TAFC each would be a very attractive show! If the radio add can say NHRA National event competition, it will draw a crowd. If the tickets are priced right, they will come back.

The Denver Divisional rarely has a full field but regularly has a packed grandstand... Lucas would be getting 10x the value of what they're getting now if just a couple more events could bring the exposure that one does.

This change wouldn't require a restructuring of the NHRA's divisional system. It wouldn't require a new series sponsor to step up and raise the purses by investing more money. It simply would restructure how many races ALCOHOL compete at, and by doing so create a stronger class.

I'm just a dreamin' I suppose...

Flash

 

We have been discussing the costs associated with traveling to Divisionals vs National events,in our case their is barely any difference at all. The up side is if you qualify at a National event you have a chance of ESPN TV coverage for your sponsor. If you qualify for a divisional you recieve National Dragster coverage and regional media coverage.We feel the best benefit in our situation is National events,offering the best bang for the sponsor with a better pay out structure. If NHRA reduced the divisional to a one day race, the reduced expenses for hotel and food etc. would certainly improve our will to attend these races. Many will not like this but if the promoter scheduled the race for a Saturday only affair It may improve their fan counts. Lets say 2 Qualiying sessions one at 10:30am the next at 1:00. finals 4:00,6:30 and 9:00. When you think about Nitro races in the 60's and 70's many had similar formats.Remember " Saturday Night Under The Lights". Saturday traditionally has the largest fan count any way. Maybe if Top Alcohol was treated more like entertainment NHRA may prefer to enhance the ESPN programming. In the end it may come down to racers not having the resources to do both National and Divisional events. As everyone recalls 2010 had low car TAD /TAFC Car Counts in all divisions.
Best wishes for the New Year
Cal Bellamy
Kenny Gilmour Motorsports
TAD 6121

 

I hear Morgan Lucas is building a Nostalgia Fuel Funny car,.....hmmmmm

 

Will I Think your "What if" NHRA cancels Divisional races could be a reality, How about NHRA restores ALKY at all NHRA National Events giving the program a larger geographic area with less travel travel costs. We were thinking the same idea,but I am glad you said it first.
Cal Bellamy
Kenny Gilmour Motorsports
TAD 6121
Calgary Canada

 

I like Will's Idea

I like the idea of us being able to go to all of the national events and claiming the best 8 out of 12. I think it is a little disadvantage for a west coast car since there is less races on the west coast then back east.
Another downside is chance of winning a division championship. Cars like us and alot of others have a chance of winning a division championship but not really much of a chance of ever beating Manzo for a national championship.

All in all I do think something like this would be a good move for the future of alcohol racing.

Thanks,
Doug Gordon
10 TAFC

 

Dam Doug, You lost before you even started. ( Manzo statment)

 

Your right on target

Cody, I commend you for putting this out there. I think your right on target with what needs to happen. The divisionals have lost there appeal to fans, racers and track operators. I believe that the operators that have the regular division events should maybe pay into a fund that is then at these sport nationals. Maybe $2500. they would be money ahead for not having a payout session to alcohol that most don't want.The track, with the sport national could pay the rest. Haven't done the math. But the number one thing is make it back to where it's competitive and a good show and not insult the racers by charging us, and giving us a $600. payout. The national program is working ok. We would see better turn out at those events because we won't have the overlaps we have now that makes people who need divisionals go to them and not be able to go to the Nationals. It used to not overlap like it does now. We need to try and get this going early so that if it was to happen in 2012 it has been presented to operators, racers, and NHRA. But something needs to happen. I have voiced this idea for quite some time. I'm told most don't want it, but when you talk to most of the actual racers who are showing up to races they like the idea. You have to go to the active racers and give it more weighted average than a person who runs once every three years.

Duane Shields
8TAD

 

i like it!

I am for anything that gets us out of the Divisional races. I really like the idea of one good regional event per division though and then kinda like Will's idea of using that to determine the allstars and having that be a stand alone race that is a big deal. Norwalk would be ideal as they already bill thier Divisional as the "Cavalcade of Stars" and promote it well and get the biggest dang crowd I have ever seen short of a National event (sold out the place and I'm not so sure that is the case at their National).

Opening up alky at all Nationals is the only other bitch I've got. It sucks that we get screwed out of a couple events out West. It would be the only fair way to do it. Let us race at all of them then your best 6 of ten or 8 of twelve or something that geves everyone an more equitable shot at the National Top Ten. Pay out bonus to the top ten for the Nationals and the All- Star race for the regionals. No going to crappy race tracks just because we have to to keep our free National entry status etc.etc.

I think it is a great idea.

 

I know this is probably going to be the only option down the road, so I guess it's good to go ahead and get it out there, but I don't like it. To me, it has nothing to do with payouts or championship points, it comes down to time away from work. To go to a national event already requires a lot more time away, and if add in the extra travel distance, it's makes it worse. On the contrary, we leave after lunch (or later) on thursdays to go to divisionals. If/when this happens, (I think)I'll have three races within 450mi, then it's 750, 880, 880, 900, 1050. That's a lot of miles, and when you're leaving work on Tuesday, it pretty much means 5-6 full weeks from work, which could easily be the deciding factor on whether many people could go more than three or four times a year. Realistically for us, there would be one person doing most of the driving, and others flying in. The added purse will not even come close to covering the added travel expense, and more importantly, that doesn't sound like as much fun. It will be the only option, I understand that, and I'm sure we'll still go. Personally, though, I'd rather pay entry fees and even take a purse cut at the divisionals, though that's not going to get the fields full, which is extremely important right now. Maybe cutting divisionals back to 3 races with alky would get the car count back up? Scratch the divisional championship payouts and use that money to subsidize those three race payouts? There'd only be a plaque waiting for you if you won the division, but at least there would be three races relatively close with hopefully full fields.

 

Much of this topic I agree with, but there are some issues.
I am going to play homer here for one main reason. Division six gets the shart end of the deal because we only have one National. Yes I know there are not enough facilities capable of hosting a national here. I get that.
But there are three pretty good tracks that host divisionals and have decent crowds as well. Could they host a Sportsnationals, two of them likely have enough space, but the third is too small. Likely there would not be three Sportsnat'ls up here anyway. Payout is the biggest issue for some of the tracks across the seven divisionals even though the payout sucks for the two TA classes, and safety is also an Issue. Maybe a modified version of what we have now. Truly good tracks with decent crowds and top notch safety and track surfaces could be part of the mix.
Payout does have to increase for sure. Tracks willing to look at the payouts and improving the whole Top Alky scenerio should be included in whatever changes are made.

Dean

 

I guess one of NHRAs big stumbling blocks is that, like Will said, Lucas needs to approve of any changes to the status quo.

Jeg's is the major sponsor of the sports nationals.

I think more than just racer or NHRA backing, we would need to convince both of these companies the value our class offers. Right now, the fields at divisionals are not strong enough to put on a good show on a regular basis. We are just spread too thin.

Dean, you should see exactly what I mean by being spread too thin. The car counts in D6 were pretty sad last season. Now in the same breath you have to say there are a few cars from that area that are consistantly top 10 players. If there are fewer races that I had to run in D7, I would travel up there to run both the seattle national and whatever sportnat. was hosted there. Montana was my favorite race, we made all but one of their events. I always wished it had a full field.

I doubt any of us are racing this class to make money. I race for the pride that comes with saying I beat the best in the sport. When only 23 races are held in a season, each with 16 car fields, the level of competition at each event would be elevated and the satisfaction of holding one of those big wallys would be even more meaningful.

Will, I love the idea of the allstars qualifying being based on the winners of each divisions sport national! It was disappointing when dad and I were allstars that the scheduling of that event has literally no one in the grandstands when its run. Jegs really does put on a great program that deserves better scheduling.

I appreciate all the comments. I just want everyone to remember that the main goal of our discussion isn't just to get out of divisional events. Im sure lucas, the NHRA, and the tracks would be perfectly fine with us staying home. The point is to RESTRUCTURE the divisional system that is not promoting our class, our sponsors, and the series sponsor up to its potential.

Thanks,
Flash