Episode IV: The Blown Cars Strike Back

ZONE, What Gloria is getting at is Temperature. Vegas last year was cool. When it's 70 degrees it doesn't matter what the track altitude is that's why the corrected was so high, because vegas is an altitude track. As long as it's cool it's all good. So your condescending inuendo is way off. It's obvious that you support the blown cars. Personaly, I'm tired of your smart ass coments when you don't know what your talking about.

 

Will, you say NHRA will insist on “fruit salad”. Are you sure? Has a formal proposal been made to NHRA by both AFDs and BADs recommending a split class? Eliminating this never ending parity argument might sound pretty good to them. As for car counts, with all the BS associated with TAD now, I think you would see more cars of both types, not fewer, if the class was split. JMHO.

 

Dean,

I think temp. has more to do with it than any other element. My program uses Altitude, humitity, and temp. In the last qualifing session:

Alt 2020
Hum 25%
temp 90

Adjusted to 4350 ft. but look at the temp. differance 90 to 68.

So let's see when it gets warm back east if any one can run good.

Doug

 

I have to agree with nitrohawk, NHRA is not going to change anything unless it's to give the nitro cars back their 100%. It's very obvious the new set up does not equal parity.

NHRA is not going to do any of these complicated parity systems everyone is thinking up. There having a hard enough time trying to check this nitro percentage and are not too happy.

Vegas was a good example of why corrected altitude wont work. Corrected altitude can be at the same level because of humidity, altitude or temperature, and different combinations create very different results in performance at the same corrected figure.

Many good tuners launched blowers, blew burst panels or melted plugs in alcohol cars due to the low humidity (8 to 9%). It was tough to tune an alcohol car and impossible to make power in a nitro car.

My point is we were closer to parity before nhra made the new changes to the nitro cars.

A while back I got chewed on because I said Hillery could have gone 5.20's at Gainsville. Well, her 5.40 at 4200 ft. (on a junk race track) does correct to a 5.24-5.26 depending on who's weather you use. These corrected figures are done using the same programs that the Pro stock teams use to predict their performance.

Joey Severance is within 2 hundreths of that with no budget, no spare parts and old style rockers. They can't even read the driveshaft graph because the magnets are broken. To top that they don't twist the motor high because valve springs are two expensive.

It's time NHRA rethinks whether or not there is really a parity problem. If a well financed BAD and a totaly low budget and low rpm car can both be fast enough to compete with the nitro cars at virtually any track and probably beat them consistantly at anything above 2000 ft. there is something wrong.

 

If you think there is parity then show us a blown car that can run faster than a 5.25! anywhere Dave

 

A few points:

Is the definition of parity between the classes that any car can win at any race? If so, then parity will never, ever, under any circumstaces be achieved in any heads-up class.

I understand alot of people left Vegas furious about the A-fuel lack of performance. However, following the Gators the shoe was on the other foot. In fact Wilson, who dared run the Houstons with those A-fuelers, didn't even qualify.

I know that's been said before but it makes my point.

Zone

I don't see that as a smart ass remark just smart.
The blown cars can run closer to the A-fuelers the hotter it gets. Some one (who we can no longer mention on this site) said he wouldn't run in temperatures above like 85 degrees. That sound smart to me. No army general said,"Alright troops climb down to the bottom of that canyon and set up camp. We will fight our war from here." Thats just poor tactical mantality, why do you think the Anasazies are extinct?

Now, what does that mean? Well if you have a blown car I personally don't suggest running races in conditions similar to Gainsville in March, If you're A-fuel don't run in Denver or Vegas (at least not if it's going to be hot.)

Shields has the best of the best, won in Houston, strugled in Vegas/Tucson. Why, conditions.

mike c.

It kind of sounds like you think Joey Severence and his limited budget doesn't deserve to run well. I think he deserves to win more than Hillary because he and his dad have been doing this for a while. In my opinion experience should be counted before budget any day. (Doesn't Davenport help Severence as well?)

Wells

As far as splitting the class, I don't like it. It will ensure that a blown car and an A-fueler will win every event but the a-fuel show in some divisions will be terrible. And how about the blown show in division 4. It's a solution but not the solution.

All I can say is give this a chance. Zone can give us the numbers, but I don't think it's too skewed one way or the other.

From what we are discussing here the biggest factor isn't the 98% it's the weather. NHRA or LUCAS or whomever can not control that.

P.S. Will I take the oportunity to talk A-fuel smack every chance I get... for the good of the good of the class of course.

 

ch3no2, I tend not to pay much attentioon to poster that don't use their real names. They usually don't use it cause they are full of crap.

Here is the post Doug made and I quote
"Even if we had 100% in Vegas there's no way any Afueler would have run a 5.40 at 4300 ft corrected and at 37ft corrected there's no way a Blown Alky car is going to run a 5.18".

No I don't favor BAD's, If you would actually read all my stories including the one from Vgeas at my site I think you would understand that.

I know that temperature air temp affects the cars and humidity as much or more that any other facotrs, but Doug did not say that in his post.

I have been around these cars for a long time as well, and have heard every whine from both sides in this scenario.

PArity is almost imossible to achieve without a different sit of rules for every track (and every condition).

But that being said parity as far as stats year end results #'1qual. etc may be achieved this year (more so that the last couple years)
Maybe NHRA will look at that and not how uncompetitive one of the two types of cars are at each race.

Dean

 

Kid,
I think you are wrong about Jeff Wilson. He was runner up at both Houston races. He was the only blown car at the division race and one of two at the Nationals. Callaway was the other. Both cars qualified. It was at Gainsville that Jeff did not qualify. I talked to him at Houston and he said he had some mechanical problems there but he is on this site quite often so you can ask him.
There will always be a few blown cars at the good altitude tracks because their best performance will be there. The a-fuel cars will prob. avoid the national events where the heat and altitude are high like the plague. If the a-fuel teams with the budget to test and run often are not close to competing at these temp. & alt. the rest of us out here will certainly not try it.

 

the kid

My statements about Joey were to indicate that a lot of these alcohol dragsters need to step up to the plate and quit asking NHRA to fix their problems for them. I believe Joey is the second fastest car in the country and that's without all the advantages a lot of cars have.

dmwells

As I stated in my post, Hillery's 5.40 corrects out to a 5.24 using reicherts corrected air figures from Gainsville. Yes, that is slower than Reicherts 5.18 but you were in Vegas and you know the track was junk. The poor traction was probably costing 3 to 5 hundreths a run and the bumps certainly weren't helping. I have a video of Joey getting sideways and out of the groove on his 5.42.

To me this means both Hillery and Joey don't need much parity, and that either one of them could very well run a low 20 this year.

 

Mike,
I've seen lots of things put down on paper that don't work in reality. Just because the horsepower can increase with the better air, doesn't mean you can use 100% of it to move the car quicker. An alcohol car runs on the edge in each of the first 2 gears, and that has to all be perfect. Nothing is 100% perfect.
If you want to put some money where your mouth is, I'll take that bet!

Marty

 

Marty,
I still can't believe why the average blown alcohol racer is so positive and determined to prove that he can't run any faster.

How can you continue to argue that you can't run twenty's when the cars have already run twentys several years ago.

Are you really going to tell me you can't improve or at least get back to where you were when every other class from top fuel to stockers has continued to improve over the years.

Alcohol funny cars lost there blower boost years ago and are under the same restrictions as you are but they run faster today than they did then and they are still improving.

 

Does sound easy the stockers tafc & tf//fc all got back up to the same performance with restrictions.. what are you waiting on get your name on the list.cant be that hard??

 

According to NHRA's altitude correction tables her 5.40 run corrects to 5.311 (using comp tables)
If you were to use Reicherts method to coorect for Vegas ALtitude Myers 5.25 run in 4500 feet of air there last fall would correct to 5.09
and his 5.10 run at pomona in 2000 feet of air would correct to a 5 flat (approx)

Not the way to correct a run for elevation.

Dean

 

The program I'm using for corrections is Density by Pat Hail at Racing Systems Analysis and involves more parameters than NHRA's altitude corrections. It has been proven to be very accurate.

 

Will,
My problem is simply NHRA needs to base the parity issue on the average of many runs and not the exceptional runs.

I also think parity should realistically consider if the cars are meeting their real capabilitys. If one car is exceptionally fast because

My problem is simple, I do not understand why the blown cars can't improve at least to the point that they were at several years ago. Some of the blown cars on this site rant and rave about not being able to do it unless NHRA provides them with a method like the almighty gizmo.

Alcohol funny cars are at least 4 hundreths quicker since they lost the blower boost (from 5.55 to 5,51).
To me, that means blown cars should be able to run faster than santos or Shields ran.

Just once an for all time I would like to have an honest and logical answer as to why these cars can't improve not just excuses.

you've worked on these cars, what is the problem?

 

It's time to stop the whinin', cryin' and the what ifin'. Get your calenders and your maps out and plan your races as if you were playing chess.
If think you can't compete in the cool weather, go snow skiing. if you don't think your car will run in the summer, buy boat. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

I agree with Stacy, go pick your races. I also agree with Mike W. that because the racing conditions are so fleeting you should throw out some of the lows on both types of cars if you want to get a true comparison. There are some runs that may never be duplicated even by the same car. Unlike qualifying the track seems to come to the blown cars durning eliminations. If you could go by the qualifying numbers there wouldn't be any use racing. I personaly would like to see the ladders like they use to be in the old days. 1vs9, 2vs10, 3vs11, etc. Everyone who qualified in the top half had an advantage the first round. The way it is now qualifying 6-7-8- sucks as you have very little advantage. But thats another subject.