Thrust Bearing Death 2

OK here we go again. 1 pass 1/4 mile rear side of thrust bearing GONE copper compleatly gone. We linked the motor forward so no rearward movement at launch. Tied rear end so no forward movement at launch. Double checked trans alignment [powerglide] Cut converter pressure to 60lbs. Added oil passage to thrust face on the rear side of bearing running 20-50 royal purple oil at 100 PSI

KB block, Callis crank, 871 28% over on alcohol around 15lbs boost.
3200lbs car best time 8.403 so far. 3rd thrust bearing in 5- 1/4 passes 2- 1/8 passes Crew and myself are ready to pull all of our hair out

Have been running Federal Mogul bearings.

Any Ideas

 

we had a similar problem a few years ago.....not the same combo, but here are a few more things to check. with the trans/converter in car and the converter bolts out....how far away from flywheel are the pads on the converter? you should have close to 1/8" in my opinion. i do think that you have a engine movement problem. in our altered we use a 7/16" aluminum mid plate with limiters at the upright, the plate is bolted in all 4 corners and fits the chassis really snug. if you look at it you would think that it would never move....no way.we run a heim to the clutch can and a clevis on the other end to the chassis....we were snapping heims every pass. my point is that things will move around....and move alot. i don't think that the pump pressure is what's causing the problems. i think you have movement somewhere. believe it or not, your motor could be twisting the mid plate and bottoming out the shaft. how close are the mounts on the midplate where it bolts to the chassis? is there enough room to flex the plate and put something in a bind? hope this gives you a few more ideas.
Darren

 

Check that your cooler or loop line on the powerglide, is not kinked or pinched.
Your pilot in your converter isn't too tall is it?
How much lateral travel do you have in the converter when its not bolted up?
Do the pads on the converter go flush against the flexplate when you slide the converter foreward, before you bolt it up or are you drawing them together with the bolts?

 

Have you tried a different trans? Converter? Have you run it in the car without making a pass? Are the splines worn on the output and causing a bind?

We joked earlier about too much motor for the car. Now seriously, is there someone around you close that has an altered or dragster you could put the motor in? Could you build a "dyno" to bolt the motor into to run without any pressure on the tailshaft?

Anyone out there got an outdated chassis he could use to track this down?

I left you a phone message. You dont have to call me if you understand what I mean here.

 

How about looking at the front of the motor? Are you pulling the crank forward with the blower hub maybe?

 

We added 2 ties to the frame to the front of motor with heims. 3/4 moly tube and can see no damage. Maybe we need more this problem compounded after the adding the blower and power. We will check into this somemore. We checked before and with a 4 foot bar we could push the motor back about .020 but this might not reflect much on real conditions during a pass but it is why we added the tie links

Converter pilot has plenty of room we have .150 of clearance between coverter and flexplate before bolting and it sits dead flat against the plate before bolting. No kinks new lines no cooler. Blower belt runs very good does'nt walk at all and we run it on the loose side. After a pass and motor is hot we have around 5/8 to 3/4 inch in the belt

We have run this motor in car for several times before going to track. Everything is fine until the green light and 8.5 seconds later we have no thrust bearing.

 

I went back and looked at your old post. What were you doing when you didnt have the problem? I see that you ran more passes NA before you found the dead bearing. What was in the car before this engine combination? Was this block used when you got it? Was this engine ever grenaded and repaired? Could someone have blown it up and tweaked the main?

Go back to basics before you had the problem then move forward one modification at a time.

 

I will ask as no one else has. What is your end play? We had this problem with our combo which is diff than yours but we didnt have enough end play we know run .010 thou as the aluminum expands like crazy at operating temps.

Take it for what it is worth.

 

This block is near new, never windowed, just had it line honed before this last bearing just to be sure.

The last block we bought at a sale a rod took out a cam bore 2 lifter bores and was windowed on both sides. We welded it back together, hardblocked to the top, new sleeves, line bored, and ran the crap out of it 9.5s. We were oiling everything from a manifold on the pan rail because the oil passage was gone its a long story. Bought this KB block bumped up the HP some and ran 40 passes or so in the low 9s when we tore it down last fall found the thrust bearing was gone. We actualy think we ran most of the time with the bearing ruined. This brings up a clearance question. Added more HP with the blower and problem has compounded.

Been running around .006 clearance on the thrust. We are going to open that up to .012 or so. The old man has come up with a way to add a roller thrust bearing on the front of crank. Shhhhh top secret stuff going on there, unless it works then we will tell everybody

 

Ok we went to an M series clevite bearing and gave it .011 clearance on the thrust. We are heading to Kansas City this weekend to see what happens.

 

Good luck with that!

 

your powerglide pump pressure at 60# would scare me..I like it to be around 250 to 275# ..Dave

 

thrust bering

Listen to dave he knows, also what flex plate are you running? If it is a solid one, throw in in the trash There is a reason why they call it a flex plate. If it doesn't flex it has nothing to do but destroy thrust bearings. I have been there it cost about $12,000 to find out. Be careful. and good luck Oh buy the way, check the oil filter after ever run!!!!!! Don

 

We are running a flex plate from Reaction products its alum and suppose to flex real good. Brad from Bradco told us to run 60 lbs at the return from cooler lines. Pressure at clutchs and band is still high about 255 lbs. We know we are flexing or twisting our crank This is from talking to Jeff Fowler and Callies and others plus our own observations. Tis why we went to a Clevite m series bearing. Also switched over to a Brad Penn nitro 70 oil.

We shall see.

 

What oil were you running before?

You want to make sure your filter is up to that heavy stuff. System 1s require an HD screen for that oil. The regular screen will collapse under the pressure. I dont have any on hand but can get them overnighted with enough notice.

 

We ran 20-50 synthetic before. Our system one has the 70 micron filter in it.

We made two very good passes today and have no shiny stuff in the filter and the endplay still checks out good.

 

Congrats on the 8.326 @ 167.37!!

 

The first run was a 8.24! That new converter was worth the money.

 

I missed that one I guess. Congrats on the .24!!

 

Im glad everything is working out. Youve got the correct screen in your filter.

Now that youve got things sorted out...Lets talk about that too much motor for the car thing again.