nozzles in the intake runner

A "band-aid" for improper atomization and mixture preparation in the first place. If you send coarse fuel one direction, and air in the other, and hope that the air will reverse & shatter the fuel & entrain it & net the right mixture inside the chamber, then that is a recipe for a momentary lean combustion condition, and a big kaboom with nitro. Far better to get everything right, and pointed in the same direction, at the same time, IMO......... Seems to me that Paton has his fair share of kaboooms as I recall.

 

I Agree with Bob Meyer and TOL...

Point the nozzles towards the valves.

EDB

 

you might wanna give Carl Spiering at ERD a call as he had down nozzels on his pm car for a couple of years developing it and now all his fast customers use this set up, I beleive he makes special atomising nozzels
I am just going to this set up for this year, He has found good gains on the dyno with his set up

 

I believe Barry said it came from the Force camp?

Okay, my memory was a hair off. He was using Force's dyno?

http://www.insidetopalcohol.com/showthread.php?t=15710&page=2

 

yes nitrohaulic..you are very correct he uses Johns dyno so I going to keep my nozzels the way he told me to and it works better I think Austin Coil is a little smarter than!!!!!!!! well you figure what I'am saying...to each's own..Dave
www.myspace.com/daveloweswr

 

nozzels

I love it guys I have heard and learned some very interesting things. Please keep it coming. This site is great.. Thanks for starting it all Will. Don

 

This is getting interesting. So if a guy wanted to turn his nozzles around IN A 1400 hp alcohol appl. (hat or port),would he go richer or leaner? Would it make a difference?

 

nozzles

I could see where by pointing the nozzle toward the blower it would atomize better vs having them pointed down and chasing the fuel. Even though things are happening fast. Although I have no experience with this.

Sean

 

I'm not so sure nice, pretty airflow is what happens in a constant flow injection engine. Sounds like naturally aspirated stuff.

Isn't it more of a slurry of fuel and air, bouncing off of an intake valve that's slamming shut several times a second? Seems like atomization to promote more complete combustion would be primary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGTbQuhhluY&feature=related

How's the engine going to be lean? Is the injector facing up going to cause air to "back up" against the blower? Wouldn't think so. Seems like it would all still go into the same cylinders.

 

Since liquid alky doesn't burn, then the thought is if the volume of liquid fuel is the same but less becomes atomized, then the motor has less burnable fuel, thus becoming lean.

Is this what you guys are thinking?

I've spoke with sprint car engine builders who have come up with similiar theories while experimenting with nozzle placement and style.

 

and squish

 

TAhis topic makes for some interesting reading. When considering wheather to run down nozzles or how many the single most important thing is how much fuel flow are you trying to achieve. In an alcohol engine with 24 nozzles the jet size would have to be so small for 18 to 20 gallons of flow that they would stop up very easily. It seems to me that even in an a-fuel engine flowing 27 to 30 gallons that the standard enderle type nozzles because of the placement options are not very good to get the proper fuel pattern at the valve. About the only way to acheive what I think would be the best would be to design your own nozzles.
Don't forget that at TDC in the overlap both valves are open and the piston is shoving the air into the intake runner and also out of the exhaust. So what is going on with this constant discharge of fuel from the nozzles into the port
when this happens. Is it going in or out. Maybe that is what is called reversion. Wonder what would happen if you used a nozzle likethe waterman spinner that produces a conical spray and placed it at the top center of the runner? Do you think at 300 to 400 lbs of pressure it would create a vortex effect and suck more air in with the fuel under pressure? I tried this and ran the nozzle with a 30# check and used one of the down nozzles as a idle nozzle with no check. Seemed to work great but at the time we were so many other learning issues that could not evaluate that. Some people point the down nozzles at tht sides of the port, some at the intake valve, and yes even some back up the runner. Now mind you I am talking about a NA engine.
Anyway I read this topic as long as I could but finially had to throw my penny in the well.

 

Gore has an advertisement here on ITA showing there nozzle spray and brand X's nozzle spray.

I don't seem to find anything on the website, but it falls right into the conversation in this thread.

Does anyone know info on this?

 

fuel nozzle

Ralph and Spike recently released a new nozzle design that they have been working on for some time, If you call them they would be happy to give you information on them.. JR had a picture of them on his web site and i think has them in stock... they are real nice..

 

Atomization

On the subject of atomization does anyone know if there is a differance in atomization between a vented or non vented nozzle

Dave Wilson

 

nozzels

I do know the vented ones are for the injector. You dont want fuel dripping on the runners etc. Keep the ideas coming. Thanks Don