Surge Tank Idea I'd like to bounce off you guys...

Sorry to corrupt your top alky forums with street car stuff... But this is probably the largest knowledge base I've come across who's willing to share information freely.

I've always run a 12 Gallon, rear mounted fuel cell, gravity feeding it to the cam driven Enderle 110 pump. I've gone off of the theory that as long as the weight of the fuel in the tank was greater than the weight of the fuel in the line, that the launch forces would push the fuel forward.

I'm now rapidly approaching the point (if not already exceeded) to where this is no longer going to be feasible. Because the truck (see avatar) has very limited space in the stock nose area (hard to believe, I know), I've decided to move the radiator to the bed, and place a surge tank in it's place.

Now, I started thinking on how to control fuel to this surge tank (2 Gallons). The best idea I could come up with, until last night, was to simply have a -10 feed line into the tank, and a -8 return line above the -10 feed (both at the pass side top of the tank). When the fuel got to the -8 return line height, it would simply bypass back to the tank, unrestricted. I was going to feed the surge tank with a 250 GPH Electric pump.

Last night, I had an epiphany (or maybe delusion, I'm not sure).

I have an older Enderle 80A pump, and an enderle belt drive. Would it be feasible to use the 80A pump to fill the surge tank? The pump will have zero restrictions, so it should flow it's maximum capacity all the time. If the pump cavitates on launch, I really dont care, as it's only job will be to fill the surge tank.

Thoughts?

 

Typically a surge tank is fed with electric pump(s) and has carburator float bowls on it to keep it from overfilling.

Your MFI pump then pulls fuel from the surge tank.

I believe Kinsler's catalog has photos in it.

If not, see if you can find some on racing junk.

EDB

 

You van use a hi volume electric fuel pump that will work with alcohol with a internal bypass at the tank in the rear, build you a 2 gallon surge tank with 2 holley float bowls (one on each side) with the large needle and seat for alcohol, the float with the needle and seat will controll the level of alcohol in the tank, run one big line to the front then tee it off to go into the two float bowls. Fuel pumps don't like to go dry while running (they won't live long) and you don't want it to cavitate (not good either), then hookup your mechanical fuel pump intake and return lines to the surge tank like you would a normal fuel cell.
Better yet build or find a 12 gallion fuel cell that will fit infront between the engine and the grill, or off to the side on the radiator support and eliminate the rear fuel cell and all the other stuff all together, that would be much easier, and simpler, putting the fuel cell in the front is the way I prefer to do a setup like yours. A good friend of mine has his 70 nova that runs low 10's with mechanical stack injection setup that way, he put a 5 gallon fuel cell mounted on the drivers side front radiator support, and he tops it off just a inch or two below the return line before every pass, it works great. Also judging by the pic of your truck it could use the extra wieght on the left front anyways.

 

1. I dont want to use carb float bowls. They will not keep up with the volume demands without using about 4 of them (even with large alky needles). I'm quite familiar with Kinsler and their published plans.

2. I don't have space for a front mounted large tank, which is why I said I'm replacing the radiator with the surge tank. The tank's dimensions will be 2.5" x 24" x 9" (approx 2 gallons).

3. I've already ran 5.60s in the 8th (equiv of 8.70-8.80 in qtr) with the rear mounted gravity feed setup.

4. The chassis needs a rear anti-roll bar (or more right rear spring), which will fix the lifting of the left front so dramatically. It doesn't need more front weight.

5. Think outside the box....

 

How will you drive the additional mechanical pump?
If you are planing on driving it from the motor up front you are almost defeating the purpose of a surge tank.
Try and have a pump in the rear to push fuel to the surge tank, otherwise you are still fighting launch "G" forces.
Single big return line is best coming from the top of the surge tank back to rear. Carb fuel bowls are out of date for surge tanks and more $ and maintenance.

 

How will you drive the additional mechanical pump?
If you are planing on driving it from the motor up front you are almost defeating the purpose of a surge tank.
Try and have a pump in the rear to push fuel to the surge tank, otherwise you are still fighting launch "G" forces.
Single big return line is best coming from the top of the surge tank back to rear. Carb fuel bowls are out of date for surge tanks and more $ and maintenance.

 

Cable driven rear mounted pump...

EDB

 

Ah, but not really. The point of the surge tank is to have enough fuel to make it form the starting line to the finish line without pump cavitation due to fuel starvation.

The smaller 80A pump would simply keep the surge tank filled at idle (warm up) part throttle (driving through the pits), and for the burnout. The surge tank has enough capacity within itself to get down the quarter mile without the 80A pump running at all.

I have looked into a cable mounted rear pump. I don't trust the cable or it'd already be on there. As the cable wraps or unwraps, fuel flow volume and pressure can be affected. It works just fine for the roundy round crew who use it to feed a float bowl, but for the drag crowd, it's too inconsistent.

 

cable drive pump

There are already alot of them being used in drag racing on 3000hp turbo motors so I would not be afraid to use one on your blown deal. Weldon makes a real nice one. sean

 

need kobelco help

are there any racers out there that knows kobelco blowers inside and out? If so leave your number in need a question answered..it has to do with rotor faze and timing..thanks Dave 1-620-249-5909

 

Thanks. I was not aware of that. Thought it was only a nascar type arrangement.

 

Are these on EFI engines?

EDB

 

pump

Both ways fuel injection and mechanical.

Sean

 

That's what I figured.

EDB