port nozzle balancing

Is there a rule of thumb to go by when trying to balance egt's with port nozzles.Example cylinder 7 is 720 with a 54 port nozzle jet.If I put a 50 jet what should I expect 800 or more.1 jet size equalls how many degrees?What is the optimal egt degrees for a blown alcohol motor?What is to hot and what is to cold.Thanks for any help.

 

If you lean it from a.054 to a .050 you will be taking 15% of the fuel from that cyl. when you get into the small nozzels you should only go .001 at a time, .053 is 3.67 % leaner than a .054. If its a roots 1000 Deg. is good and safe , a screw 1100Deg is good.

 

I assume every bit you take away is going to go to another cylinder.My system has been flowed.I have not had any problems but,I just got this data system and would like to make all the cylinders the same as i believe that will make me more consistant.I run a boat in pro mod and it is a 7 sec dial in.It is a 1471 hi helix mooneyham blower with enderle fuel system.1200 pump.7and 8 are about 780 and 1 and 2 are about 1090.The rest are around 900.I appreciate any more help.

 

Before you go changing any nozzels you want to make sure all the cyl compression is the same, leak it down first. you are corect all the other cyl will be richer but once you get them all the same heat you just change the main jet to lean or richin it. you might want to switch the jets from the rich cyl to the lean ones. That will keep your total ariea the same.

 

nozzle swaps

I think what eli meant to say is take alittle away from the cold cyl and add it to the lean or hotter cyl. my front ports are about .070 and the rear is .048. You wouldnt swap them directly. take .002 out of the fat side add same amount to the lean hole. its supposed to keep the fuel pressues the same. a balanced engine is worth some extra hp.

 

Yes you are right Mark, Here's a web site that will give you the ariea of your jets/ nozzels then you can figer ot the % of each nozzel you want to change, as you will see .001 from a .070 is differant than .001 from a .050. you need to change % wise not tousants. get out your calculator. http://www.tdaweb.com/TNFA.calculator.htm

 

Eli, am I to understand that you think a specific number jet from "Enderle" is to always flow the same GPM ? It looks like that website is suggesting that ?
If the jets haven't been flowed , how do you know what it really is ?

I'm just curious !!!!!

 

The site will tell you how much ariea a jet or nozzel has, to find out the jet or nozzel's actiaul size. you will need to buy a jet size gauge from (Wizart's warehouse, http://wizardswarehouse.com/indx2.htm but he said his system was flowed, so I'm asuming that he knows what sizes his jets and nozzels are already and any spares he may have.

 

You guys are making this more difficult than it really is. You can't go by nozzle/jet size. It's much easier to go by area. Whatever area you remove from any given nozzle(s)/jet(s), you add to another. This keeps the area and fuel pressure the same, thus your fuel curve does not change. To figure nozzle/jet area, do the following: nozzle x nozzle x .7854=???? Example .070 x .070 x .7854 = .003848. This is your area for a .070" hole. You can do this for the entire fuel system, whether it's hats or ports.

 

I don't mean to sound like an idiot here, and I am in no way trying to argue, but the whole dia doesn't control how much fuel goes into the motor. It has alot more to do with the shape of the leading edge along with the dia of the whole. I'll take a set of nozzles and using a set of precision pins, measure the holes. For the "most" part , they will be say a .100 dia, give or take .001
But when we put them on the flow bench, we change the leading edge to make them all flow the same GPM. You use a highly conical drill the angle that edge more, or a flat drill to flatten it out. It still has the same bore dia, but the flow changes alot.
Have you ever actually flowed nozzles or jets yourself to see that the number that is stamped on there isn't really what it flows ? I think that when one of the "real" guys ( Gorr ? ) sells you "flowed" nozzles, that they have either flowed them and then changed that inlet to correct them, or they don't stamp the number in it until they have flowed them ? We've never bought "flowed" nozzles to compare and see if they are close or not?
What do you think ?

 

The leading edge has everything to do with flow, you're right. But I wasn't talking about flow. I've been on Ralphs flow bench many times, so I have seen this. Maybe I should have clarified this a little more. I was refering to a flowed set of nozzles/jets.

 

Ok ! Ralph and Spike sure seem like great guys ! I have only delt with them a little over the phone, but man, do they help you.... Spectacular

 

We always run flowed nozzle inserts. The diameter is an indication of flow but we have several insets of the same diameter and they flow much different. Bill Reichert, years ago, lost two motors to the fact that he put in a smaller jet, thinking he was richening the motor, but it flowed more than the larger one he took out, thus leaning it out even more. It's taken us ten years, but we have all flowed nozzles and jets, (all four hundred of them) and we've never been sorry. One point to make: the main should be around .080 to .100. That way you can make changes that are not too drastic. If you order pizza, and I get the outer rim, I'm gonna have you order a 48 incher rather than a twelve. Same holds true for jetting. The difference from an .080 to an .082 is much smaller than a change from a .120 to a .122. Get all you cylinders balanced, then add or subtract by %'s of each. Figure the total area changed, and do the reverse to the main. That richens or leans the motor and keeps whatever fuel pressure you had the same. With flowed jets, we do this by flow numbers, changing their %ages richer or leaner and then do the opposite to the main. That way high speeds and fuel pressure stay the same. Confused? I've got a headache. Gotta go lie down now. Bye all.

 

I am half tempted to leave it alone know.All I want to do is even out my egt's hoping it will make main pill changes due to weather and altitude more consistant and accurate.What I am understanding is if I want to do this I need to flow my old jets before or due I need to send them to get flowed and adjusted.I thought the number on enderle jets were accurate.

 

I , to date, have 368 nozzles. All were flowed on my bench, and other than about 14 of the # 40 , actually flowed the number stamped on them. Some are way over, some are small. Same way with pills ( drop in style, as then you get two for one by using them forward and backwards) I actually have a Kinsler .110 that flows 112 backwards and 126 forwards !
It's only my thought, but have the stuff flowed !!!!!! And Gorr does a really nice job ! Godnight !

 

Greg, it's not all that dificult, in your first post you said the system was flowed, if enderli flowed the system for you then it's flowed,alot of racers like to NAME DROP, like there guy is the best in the world, like right now Randy Anderson is the flavor of the day, and by far he has the best system for an alky funny car, you are running a drag boat, it's not the same. If you listen to your boat in your video, you can here it rev, and drop, rev, and drop, I would try to fix that first, before you kick a rod, then fix the fuel system, I was the crew cheif on a Grand Prix boat, big block chevy with an 8/71, we didn't have port nozzels, and our cyl were all even heat, by the way is that video old, because that don't look like a 14/71 blower more like a 10 or 12, a14/71 has 19 inch roters.

 

Flow Checking Nozzel's all by your self

This is the Norm Drazzy (PSI) way to check a nozzel for the correct flow.
You May use a leakdown tester to solve the problem, A usefull technique is to use an air blow gun, put a quick disconect fitting that plugs into your leak down tester, and tap it outlet nozzel 5/16-24 so it accept's an Enderle nozzel,The blow gun may be pluged in, the leak down tester zeroed once, and as many mesaurements taken as desired, after checking a few nozzels you'll quickly develop a feel for the expected change in leakdown associated with a given change in nozzel size. using this technique you can quickly remove a nozzel that you want to adj. check it and see that you are going in the direction you want to go, Rich Or Lean.

 

I just re-read this post, 1/2 are at the righ temp.as you go back in cyl's you get less heat, that tells me that the rear cyl are too lean, not too rich the blower works the air and fuel from the hat to the front of the motor, your rear cyl. are so lean there is not enough fuel in them to make any heat it's called being on the wrong side of the fuel curve. this I'm getting from your heat readings, to verfiy this you need to look at your plugs if you are pulling 3 treads of heat from the front cyl and no treads from the back then this is your problem.

 

I've seen brand new Enderle nozzles vary 10% in output at 100 PSI. You can poke some holes in brass and they will all flow pretty similar at low pressure, but crank it up and they'll be all over the map. Hilborn checks theirs at 30 PSI and they are within 1% there. But at 100 PSI the spread generally widens to 3-4%. Enderle doesn't check their nozzles at all. A good indication is what a nozzle or pill will cost with the hole vs. without. Same price in most cases. That tells you that not a whole lot of checking goes on

The entry is indeed the most important aspect, but the surface finish on the inside of the hole, the length of the orifice and the exit also have an effect. This applies to pills as well as nozzles.

The first thing I do when flowing a system is to check the individual output of each nozzle at a pressure the customer's system is likely to hit at the top end according my calculations. I then correct the flow of each at this pressure and then move on to other things...the nozzles are the basis of the entire tuneup so they come first.

Spud
www.fuelinjectionenterprises.com

 

This is the best website !

Thanks for all the great info !