cs 1 lenco oil capacity (Leaks lika sive)

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by john 111, Apr 25, 2006.

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  1. john 111

    john 111 New Member

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    Lenco reccomends a quart in the 1st and 2nd gearbox and a 1/2 qt in the reversier, with that my trans leaks consintently thru the can drain, have replaced the front seal twice and have a new input shaft(fits the seal well). Has anyone else had this problem?
    Am I putting too much oil in them?
    Seals that I pulled out and the seals I got locally were the 8516n national also the same seal lenco sells,it is a double edge type.
    Any suggestions?.............................Thanks..........John
     
    #1
    john 111, Apr 25, 2006
  2. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    That is the same oil quantity that we use and we have no problems. Since your seal and shaft are both good then the possibility exists that either your front bearing in the Lenco is bad or the shaft oilot bearing in the flywheel is bad causing the shaft to vibrate and let oil by the seal. Have you put a small amount of silicone in those small holes in the front of the Lenco that are around the seal?
     
    #2
    Mike Canter, Apr 25, 2006
  3. DQUES

    DQUES Member

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    Maybe try indicating the bellhousing to verify the alignment . Kind of a long shot but you have to find the problem and eliminating that is a start .
     
    #3
    DQUES, Apr 25, 2006
    Bob Meyer likes this.
  4. john 111

    john 111 New Member

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    Yes Mike,I did clean out the therr holes and replugged them useing silicone. I relly thought that was the problem,but it wasnt.
    Dques, check alingiment with trans case? I wasnt awary of that measurement, could you briefly explain??
    Thanks guys...............................
     
    #4
    john 111, Apr 25, 2006
  5. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    One check is to remove the clutch but leave the flywheel with the pilot bushing installed. Install the can and Lenco with the input shaft in the Lenco. Then through the can inspection hole grab hold of that big shaft and move it from full front to full back and make sure you have around .080" play. I normally paint the shaft with layout blue dye then move it all the way back and use a scrib to mark the position of the shaft relative to the end of the candlestick then move the shaft forward and make another mark then measure the distance between the two marks and see if it is around .080". If it is way less then you have to machine the splines back from the pilot end for the clearance. If it is too loose you either have to machine a bushing to go over the pilot shaft or put an oring over the pilot part of the input shaft.
     
    #5
    Mike Canter, Apr 25, 2006
  6. john348

    john348 Top Alcohol

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    check your shifter pods
    make sure they are not leaking out the bottom to pressurize the cases
     
    #6
    john348, Apr 25, 2006
  7. T.A.D. 776

    T.A.D. 776 New Member

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    Bellhousing Alignment Instructions

    The last page in the Lakewood catalog shows how it's done and the list of parts to correct it WHEN it is off. Or go to http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/BELLHOUSINGALIGN.pdf
    On the Mr Gasket web site www.mrgasket.com
    Look in tech support - search instructions.
    Blocks and bellhousings rareley line right up. If your block has been line honed then you know for sure it is off the bellhousing centerline.

    Then you have to check transmission to bellhousing alignment. How wallered out are the bolt holes? The transmission lines up to bellhousing on the centertering ring. Are the proper countersunk bolts holding in the candlestick? Are they flush? Or standing off preventing the transmission from seating correctly?

    Seal leakage.
    Did you lube the seal with High Temp grease? ( That shaft gets HOT )
    Are you putting in an antifoaming type fluid like Redline Racing ATF?

    Good luck and I hope this helps.
     
    #7
    T.A.D. 776, Apr 25, 2006
  8. Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC

    Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC TAD / TAFC

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    Yep that sounds like a good amount, we've always ran (from motor to reverser) 1-1/4, 1-1/4, 1/2. Regular ATF fluid (Dexron III I think). We have had issues in the past when right after we put a new seal in, whoever put the transmission in smacked the seal on the input shaft and caused it to leak right away again.
     
    #8
    Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC, Apr 25, 2006
  9. Flyboy68

    Flyboy68 Member

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    Hey John,
    I'm no Lenco expert but I run a CS1 as well....i'm not sure how yours mounts to the frame of the car, but mine has two studs on both sides of two of the three cases (4 speed lenco) that will leak if I don't silocone the threads where they meet the case. Granted mine has been through many times, however those studs are nothing more than a bolt that is ran through the case.

    Nathan you run Dextron III in that? Seems awful thin...lenco told me to run 10w-30 motor oil...both however turn to water like thinness when hot.

    You know what they say..."if it leaks you got a good one!" ....just my 2 cents....

    Josh
     
    #9
    Flyboy68, Apr 27, 2006
  10. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    Josh, we have always used ATF (synthetic) in ours. ATF works great in these transmissions as well as 10-30wt oil, Both supply suffiecient lubrication to all the bearings and gears. The big difference between the two is the thinner ATF allows the clutches to lock up faster during the shift because the ATF is pushed out from between the clutches and steels faster. It takes a little longer to push out 30 wt oil so the 30wt acts like a cushion. If you want to soften the hit at shift point especially with the high pull settings required for blower motors (42-44 lbs pull) then use oil vice the ATF. If you want a harder hit and faster shift then use the ATF.
     
    #10
    Mike Canter, Apr 28, 2006
  11. Flyboy68

    Flyboy68 Member

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    Hey Mike thanks for the info! I'd love to run synthetic trans fluid. Have you ever noticed a difference in wear between running the different oils?

    -sorry guys for getting off the subject
     
    #11
    Flyboy68, Apr 28, 2006
  12. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    I five years we have only had one transmission failure and that was due to a sprague finally wearing out (older small type). I do pull checks on a regular basis and tear it apart if they drop to much and check the thickness of the clutches. I have never seen any unusual wear.
     
    #12
    Mike Canter, Apr 28, 2006
  13. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    installation

    you've probably already covered this...

    sometimes installation can wreak hell on the front seal. depending on if you are using bolts or studs off the bellhousing on how easy it is to mess the front seal up with the input shaft.

    are you getting your seals from lenco?

    all valid points on this thread.
     
    #13
    Will Hanna, May 1, 2006
  14. M Tigges

    M Tigges TAFC

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    We use to use Synergyn super shift synthetic ATF, and we were burning the thrust washers.

    NOW synthetic 5w30 (MOBIL 1 ETC..) ZERO PROBLEMS!
     
    #14
    M Tigges, May 1, 2006
  15. john 111

    john 111 New Member

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    I had gotten the seals from lenco and they were the same seal I can get at the local berring supply,however they are half price locally.
    All info here is very good,the only thing I have not tried is alining the trans/bellhousing.
    It leaks with 1qt in the 1 and 2nd gear pods and 1/2 in the reverser. It was not started,just kept on leaking thru the bottom bolt in the bellhousing.
    I am going to put silicone on the outside of the seal befor I install the seal again,between the seal and trans case to see if that helps.
    The reason I asked about 2 1/2 qt capicity,I was told by a nitro racer to only use 1/2- 1/2 and a quarter quart ,half of what lenco reccomends.Was told i was putting in WAY too much oil and half that amount was enough to keep oil on the clutches and lube on the internals.
    The good old days of the powerglide are over now but I am starting to miss them now,guess thats a part of wanting to go fast..................
    Thank you guys for the advice......................................John
     
    #15
    john 111, May 2, 2006
  16. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    John, you should not be having a problem like this and I would not recommend reducing the amount of oil in the tranny. That tranny needs that oil to cool the bearings and clutches. You need to find out what is causing it. Silicone beteen the tranny and can is not going to accomplish anything. There is a problem there and you just have not found it yet.

    From all the posts on help and what you have said you have done I like the one from john348 about the pods leaking air into the tranny and pressurizing it. This will push the oil out of the front seal.

    You might want to open up the filler plugs in the top of each section of the Lenco and then with the car not running hit second gear and see if air comes out of the filler plug for that section then hit third and see what happens in the other section. If air starts coming out those Lenco filler plugs then the orings in the shifter pods are bad. There are three orings in the pods. One that is on that top plate, one around the piston and one down inside the shaft that screws into the Lenco. If that one that is inside the shaft or the one around the piston is bad then it will leak that 150 psi air into the tranny. You also need to make sure that small hole in the botton of the pod for venting out the air is not blocked and does not have a restrictor jet in it.
     
    #16
    Mike Canter, May 2, 2006
  17. john 111

    john 111 New Member

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    Hey Mike, I also thought the air was a VERY good reason,but the trans is leaking without any air going to the pods. I can put in the recomended amount and not start the car or turn on the co2 and it will still leak out.The silicone I was refuring to was around the outside of the seal,to seal up between the seal and trans housing befor installing the seal itself.
    I know something is not rite and will keep on it untill I find out where its coming from.
    It sure is good to have knowlagable people to help out on this site,much unlike other sites Ive been to,thanks again to all...........John
     
    #17
    john 111, May 3, 2006
  18. Rolme

    Rolme Jr. Dragster

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    I just wonder where the oil level is sitting, if the oil is leaking even without starting the car with the recomended amount of oil in the trans, you would think that the level would be lower than the rubber section of the seal and even possibly the steel outer section of the seal. The hole/crack/case porosity must be lower than that. mark the oil level on the outside of the case if that is at all possible?? Just a thought.
     
    #18
    Rolme, May 3, 2006
  19. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    Well Rolme, there is a possibility. The aluminum covers that mount over the spragues and bolt onto the front part of the sections have a slot in them which has to be positioned in the lowest point that they can be mounted so that the oil can move back and forth from one section to another.

    That might be something worth checking
     
    #19
    Mike Canter, May 3, 2006
  20. eli

    eli Banned

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    Put your trans on your work bench and level it, put the input shaft in it and suport it as if it was in the car, then fill with oil untill you can SEE where its leaking .:rolleyes:
     
    #20
    eli, May 3, 2006
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