MSD 44 timing retard during starting

Anyone figure out how to wire a MSD 44 Promag to retard timing during starting?

 

Question is rather vague but I'll take a shot at it. You can do this simply by adding a change over switch. Set the mag at a few degrees back and then switch it to the trigger once it's running. The other option is to wire up a timing controller; six shooter, 8971, 8973, Power Grid, Command Module - and control idle timing that way.

Brandon Booher
NHRA TAD #323
Torque MGMT. - Owner

 

2 crank triggers

how about 2 crank triggers and a change over switch?

 

Exactly why are you wanting to do this?

 

Retarded

Agreed. Why are you wanting to retard timing during starting/cranking? Does it seem like it is not turning fast enough to start/fire or lugging down during cranking on it? Is this the first time you are using the 44 mag or have you used it with success before? Might be a starter / voltage problem. I am just asking.

 

I use 12 volt flywheel block mount (bbc) starters with 24 volts to it. So I have enough spinning capability to fire the 44, problem is the starter and flywheel teeth do not last long at 32 degrees because of the kick back. I turn it back to 27 starter life is good but loose power.

I can not run a crank or supercharger snout starter setup, other items mounted to them.

A 8971 I took a look at last PRI but MSD techs refused to provide me with an answer on timing retard capability during starting. I am looking for a simple setup to do this, I do not need to retard at medium and high RPMs.

thanks for the help.

 

I am wondering why it would kick back on you with 32 degrees. is it possible there is something that you could be doing a little different during the whole starting procedure? The reason I ask is that I run more timing than you, and mine never kicks. i run a hemi...msd....24v mini starter.
Everyone starts them a little different....how do you usually start the car?
Darren

 

8973 Start Retard

I might be wrong about this but it looks to me that the 8973 has a start retard feature built in to it and is active until 800rpm is seen: copy and paste from the 8973 manual:
RETARD PROGRAMS
Start Retard
Program an amount of retard that will occur while the engine is cranking. It is adjustable from 0°
- 25° in 1° increments. This is an automatic feature and will enable below 500 rpm and will deactivate when the engine rpm increases above 800 rpm. Default is 10°.

 

MSD Programming

Well, if the MSD Ignition does not function as they say it will, then they should offer either a clarification as to how to make it work OR change the manual. I am quite sure many racers have bought the 8973 (and many other MSD products) and depend on it to perform as described. Just MHO

 

Wide tip rotors.

 

Do you run 139 tooth? If not, you might call Mark at House of Payne. He can do a 24v deal, but I'm running his Big Dog on 18 volts and it spins very fast.

I destroyed a 168 tooth setup on 24volts due to kick back. It turned out that I had the timing a little high (like ~30 degrees higher than I thought) and a neutral safety switch that was intermittently kicking the starter out. I've also had a loose connection on the starter switch wire cause what I thought was kickback, but was really just an intermittent drop out of the starter solenoid.

Not really related to your original question, but maybe timing retard is not the answer.

 

Not to derail the topic But I have a similar question regarding timing with two mags with different settings.

A/Fuel motor 421ci two MSD Mags,..Two fuel pumps,. two separate fuels.
I would like to start motor on alcohol w/36 degrees on one mag do burn out, back up, then pull on second fuel pump for Nitro turning off first pump, and switch mags to second mag for 60 degrees killing 1st mag of 36 .

Is this possible,..????

 

Call Johnny West !

 

You could phase the mag at 27 deg and set the crank trigger at 32 deg. Start using the internal trigger and switch over to crank trigger when running. A simple 2 pole switch will do that trick. (been there, done that) Of course this does mean that your mag phasing is slightly off, but with the big cap you can probably work that one out as well and if you're pulling timing at some point the phase difference may even be an advantage. With the smaller cap the rotor timing will be off by 5 deg (assuming it is correct and play-free to start with), but I don't think that will be a major issue.
Two crank triggers and a switch will of course also work and will be easier to get the wiring in place.

 

I still use 168 tooth has anyone here used 139 tooth on a BBC? longer ring gear life?

For the 8971-3 start retard, I'll ask again this year at PRI (MSD booth)...

 

Discusing it with a friend, maybe mechanically move the magneto using something similar to a PSI advance unit but body support would require a special rotator bracket. just keeps getting deeper and deeper.