Reason(s) for the dwindling car counts at National events

I know this is a can of worms...but wassup with the car counts?

 

Dwindling? Damn near at quota at Chicago and Norwalk.. Seattle looks a little dumpy on the count right now, but I think there is points watching going on and people aren't going to go clear to Seattle from the east coast or Midwest for a single race. Especially when Cordova, Brainerd, Topeka/Bowling Green, Indy, Earlville, Charlotte/Noble and Dallas are all coming up back to back to back to back to back to back to back. Schedule craziness.

 

Yep, dwindling. Chicago was a "paid" race. Norwalk was 4 days later.

 

car counts

I just had a thought...If someone out there has the funding and desire to go racing, I'm up for it..otherwise...there's always the lottery.until then, 2 races per year 50 miles from home.

 

I agree, not trying to be a jerk by bringing up the subject. My knee-jerk answer would be that the NHRA payouts should increase 3-400% across the board. Maybe they could assist dedicated racers with sponsor procurement help, like NASCAR does. However, in the real world I know that may not happen any time soon.

 

And then the alarm clock went off and it was time to get up. Sweet dreams.

Problem is...NHRA National Events anymore have empty grandstands. Who's going to cough up the increase in payouts? And if you ever get a sponsor be prepared for the NHRA and nearly every local track to hit on your sponsor. Happened to me. "Why sponsor a car when you can have a suite at the races with your name on a sign...and we'll include a dozen or so tickets for your employees."

 

Chicago was a "paid" race for 8 of the 19 in TAFC and 8 of the 25 in TAD.. And I would be willing to say at least half of those 8 that were "paid"(might pay your fuel 1 way or run the generator all weekend) would be there anyway.

There have been 3 of 8 Nationals so far this year that didn't have a full field in one or both classes, and that's because there were 15. I think it's actually been better than last year by the numbers. Seattle is the first race to look dismal for an Alky count.

Reasons for lower car counts besides the economy sucking.. Schedule, parts attrition and parts availability. People have been tearing stuff up HARD this year for some reason, maybe the bunched together schedule? Then, you tear something up, you have to replace it. When Rod and Piston suppliers are taking 3-6 weeks and you're on a 7 race weekend in a row stretch because of brilliant scheduling, you might wind up sitting a few out should you need some unexpected parts you didn't think of to order enough spares. Even my company has been guilty of getting caught with our pants down on occasion with our hubs for clutch discs and had to ship stuff a week late. Very few people are shelving parts and if they are, it's substantially less than what it used to be. And God help you should you need a new blower right now..

Another issue is people's source of funding for racing.. Many people have remained successful through this crap, but it has taken twice the attention and work that it used to require of them. Hard to race when you're working.

From there it's how far the funding stretches. When your yearly budget used to take you to 10 races and you were stretching thin, now you might get half that if you're lucky.

As for payouts, welcome to drag racing. If you're fortunate enough to win in a class like Comp on up to the Pros, you might cover the cost of your consumables going to the next race. If you want to be competitive in Pro Stock, figure $1-2 million/season just for your engine program. Hell just a lease program for a full season will run you over $1 million, and you don't even own the motors! $250,000 for winning the championship, half of which might cover your valve spring bill for the year. By the numbers, Nascar has impressive payouts even for coming in last, but their operating costs also make Top Fuel racing look like a bargain.

Honestly the only things you can point the finger at NHRA for are scheduling and not finding more series sponsorship dollars(if there is any left to be had at that).

 

Thanks for taking the time to share your info.

 

Scheduling races where are no racers

You will never get full fields as long as they intentionally schedule alcohol where there are no alcohol racers. Most alcohol racers are in D1, 3 and7. In division 1 there are 23 points earning alcohol racers this year. We are rewarded with 1 nation event running alcohol in D1 this year (reading) and where told this weekend that we will not be run at the new New England national next year. In contrast there are 2 racers who claim TX as home and they get 2 National events. There are 3 racers from D2 and 3 national events with alcohol in D2. Forget the payout, as long as racers with volunteer crews who use their vacation time to get to races, and $4.00 diesel, scheduling races where are no racers will guarantee short fields. No problem filling fields in Pomona, Vegas, Chicago , Norwalk, Indy and Reading.

 

yep exactly. It just costs so much more now than ever before to race in the alcohol classes. Someone was telling me the other day that they budget 10 grand per race for an alcohol car. That use to be a top fuel budget. ten grand is my budget for the entire year. I wish it wasn't so or I'd be doing it right now. I guess I'm just lucky to be doing what I'm doing.

 

You think NHRA payouts are bad, have you seen the Nostalgia race payouts???

 

I've been hearing the $10k figure for 15 years, unless your talkin a race 3-4 hrs. Away!

 

WOW, that's just terrible all around--

 

Well I guess I'll comment in case anyone at the office reads here. Yes money is a big factor, its why I quit running my own car. You cannot run a competitive car on $10K per weekend with an all volunteer crew. Also consider the loss of return on the capital investment and the depreciation on the race car and tow rig when discussing expenses.

There were lots of alcohol cars in the north west back in the day, so what happened? NHRA took all the races away. Why would you continue to own and maintain a car with nowhere to race it? The largest countries in the world are Russia, Canada and the USA in that order. The lower 48 of the US is 3.12 million sq miles; Add in Alaska, Hawaii, PR, US VI etc and it is 3.79 million sq mi. Canada is 3.855 million sq miles.

There is exactly one Divisional/Regional race in all of Canada. There are lots of race tracks and many were NHRA and some still are.We even had our own division. There were many divisional races in Canada but it is now down to one single event. There was 1 National event, now none. On the Div 7 car count, yes it has always been strong but it has also always been pumped up by a strong contingent of div 6 racers willing to travel.

Racers in the west have essentially no chance to compete for a National Championship under these new Regional rules. You would have to plan for 10 National Events of the 16 where we are run. There are only 5 events in the entire western half of the continent. There is absolutely no fairness or balance to these arrangements.

To get the car count up there has to be a few races to go to....put Denver, Sonoma and Phoenix back in for a start, dont even talk about dropping anything. How about a NEW APPROACH? How about National Events for alcohol cars without the pro classes at selected regional venues to balance the race access out? Same rules and points...16 car fields at good divisional venues that would be willing to promote the classes/event and get some attention. I know some tracks would take such a show in a heartbeat. Also why no Alcohol at the sports nationals events?

Just my 2 cents. Jeff Johnsen

 

EXACTLY, this the best description of the problem.

 

true sportsnationals for alky cars

This proposal was discussed with the regional director. He was very receptive. now is the time to show how valuable alky racing can be and be a winning situation for the raciing venues that want us.

 

$10,000 Really?

There is an old saying: "I've seen the enemy and he is me"

If you're spending 10 large, or more per race that means one thing.....you can!!!! That doesn't mean you have to, and we sure aren't.

There always has been....and there always will be folks who can spend. They come and go..... and normally they don't stay around that long.

We are leaving for Seattle in a few days. So if you want to help us out at the starting line please drop by. It will be just the two of us. We don't pay, we don't have any beer, we don't fly you in, we don't buy motel rooms, we don't go out to eat after the races.....but we may have a sandwich and soda for you. I do make a pretty good sandwich.....

Now please continue, these are always interesting threads. I especially enjoy reading about those who have to travel to race........


Kevin Hool
"The Ghost" TAFC10
http://kandkmotorsports.com

 

Gee Kevin, I don't think that snide comments are all that helpful to the discussion in the thread. We were pitted next to you in, I think, Vegas and my impression was that you were nice folks, just like us. We will also be in Seattle; stop by and say hi if you like.
In my observation, most teams are composed of more than the 2 you mention. Quite a few people have to work and run businesses and are forced to fly. That does not make them bad people. We are in the NW and also have to travel; for example Vegas is $2400 in fuel for us. We have to keep tires on the truck/trailer. Brakes, oil changes, liscence, insurance, depreciation and replacement. If you run it from your business or run a semi there are trip permits and fuel permits. When we did that some years ago it was about $5-6k per season plus truck inspection and cert every 6 months. We also stay @ the track and eat what we cook there. Our current driver travels from Ankorage Alaska to race; do you seriously expect him to drive rather than fly in order for him to be a good guy?
A part of the expense of running these cars is the impossible to control things. An example?
Last year we are at Medford. Put a new engine in the car. New. New block, crank, gear drive, cam/lifters, oil pan, oil pump & heads. Huge financial bite for us. Fire up and everything is great. First pass and the oil pump gear in the brand new pump galls and twists off the drive from the mag drive. No oil 1/2 way through low gear; kills the crank, breaks 3 rods, 2 holes in the block, 3 pistons into 2 heads & valves, oil pan destroyed.
Another example?
Vegas this spring. Q1 for the regional event. Car runs down the track fine to about 1200 feet and then the right rear tire exploded. He got the chutes out and did not crash. Slid through the lights on 3 wheels on the chutes with a 5.57 and qualified. The tire took out the carbon wing, wheel, liner & wheelie bar. Both upper frame rails were badly cracked 3/4 of the way around by the front wing struts. Belly pan was looking like a '50 chevy hood. I had to cut the w/bar mounts off to slip tube inside both rails, rosette and weld the repair, fix the w/bar beat the tray into shape, put on spare wheels and tires and wing. We just missed making it to Q2 and got bumped out so no first round $. We ran as an alternate to see that the car ran straight, which it did and lost. Because it ran ok we stayed for the National event the next weekend. We then took the car home, stripped it and went back down to Hadman's shop to have it back halved, new wheelie bar and tray.
What do you think those events cost?
We just ran at Woodburn and then at Sonoma and did not have to even put a valve spring in. It is all part of the cost of racing, and it is not cheap and it is not predictable what will happen nor what it will cost.
On the come and go, dont stay long comment, i know you guys have been around for a long time; my first trophy drag racing was in 1968 at Arlington in E/Pure Stock in my brother's new '68 Road Runner.
......Does this bring me up to "its just my 4 cents worth"? Again, stop by at Seattle and say hi; we are quite nice "little guys".
Jeff Johnsen

 

Kev,

I'm not sure if I sent this to you before or not, so check your email.

Flash