Graham Light

Dual Calipers

Yes there would be seperate master cylinders operating off the one brake pedal. The reality is that we have to make our cars safer ourselves. I don't know the answers as far as an attrition rate on chutes, when to bake rotors/pads, but a proactive approach to everything is at least a step in the right direction. Nothing against NHRA but in most cases lengthening the track isn't an option. If they put some type of aircraft landing device, everyone would be up in arms about having to modify their chassis etc etc....people will complain no matter what. The scary thing is if there was a part that no doubt 100% guaranteed gave you .200 in the 1/4 and it cost $5k......everyone would have one, some of the well funded teams would have two or three...I would think your safety is worth quite a bit more than that. I know NHRA has been speaking with several of the SFI Cert'd chassis builders to get ideas.....whatever the outcome we 100% don't need any more tragedies.

Brandon Booher
NHRA TAD #35

 

There is one thing about making the race a 1000 ft. What happens if it's a freek medical condition. They could make the race 300 ft. If there person blacks out and stays streight. What about John Shoemaker??

 

more chutes!

Id like to hear afew more ideas to keep the chutes ATTACHED to the car. duct tape? (kidding)The chute mounting bracket on mine (toploader f/c) will be remade alittle thicker. In part so there is no chance of the bolt tearing out. Also Im going to inlarge the diameter of the bushing that goes thru the eye of the chute straps; that should spread out the load it see's.

 

1000 Foot

As Mark Niver's daughter, I know that changing us to 1000' would piss him off greatly! Anyone that has ever had an injected car knows that we need that last 320' Not to make this at all about blown vs injected but you all have to know that would destroy the injected cars to take away that last 320'

 

As I started reading this thread the idea of the aircraft style catch cable came to mind. The problem being that our cars are so low, how are we going to safely run over a cable in the road at 100 or so MPH? I am curious about running the second set of calipers because you can get on the brakes hard enough to make the car 'hop' or 'bounce' now. I do like the idea that it is infact a seperate system and would great as a fail safe.

 

Safty and Cost

Ok, I have followed this topic as a result of the Mark Niver crash.
It is a sad fact of our sport.
The NHRA seems always to make rules that in the name of safety,
that is ok but do they do anything to really improve safety like ,
What have they done to fix the catch fence and sand traps ???
Just me,
NITRO.

 

I like Brandon's thinking

Brandon is right on the money with his last post. If there were a widget that would pick your car up a tenth most people would sell there grandma's dentures to get it, Or they would not race until they could afford to buy it. But everytime there is a new safety item required all you here is bitching. It is at all levels. Look at Pro Stock, this year NHRA tried to tell them they had to wear a 15 suit and they all threw such a fit NHRA backed down on it. I have heard of top dragster guys Teching with 15 suits and wearing their old 5 to race.

I agree that the implementation date for the brakes wasn't well thought out because the manufacturers don't have the stock on hand to accomodate the change, but it was a good rule revision. You can stop a car better with Carbon brakes. the friction coefficient of carbon-carbon is much better than composite-steel, and as the brakes heat up they work better. This is the opposite of standard steel brakes.

The problem with designing a new net sytems is, as Graham Light stated, there are a lot of diffrent weights and shapes of cars running at vastly different speeds. The enregy to stop these is also vastly different and one will not work well for another.

 

No....there isn't. How many times have you ever seen a pro-stocker in the net? A handful (maybe) The ones consitently in the sand/net are top fuel / top alcohol dragsters and funny cars. Of which, are nearly the same weight. The bottom line is, NHRA does not want to mandate this to the tracks because of the push back from them and the negative revenue stream to the NHRA.

 

Crash nets/barricades

One thing I see that I hadn't noticed before is that when I was mentioning that the Navy can stop 30,000 lb jets @ 150 MPH and they use nets when the arresting gear on the plane is broken or inoperable. The nets are generally the same set up as what you will find at the end of a dragstrip and cause considerable damage to the planes they stop. But they stop them!

But what if you could incorporate the best features of each type of system? Use a net, but attach it to a large hydraulic cylinder and make the movement of the net (when it catches a runaway car) force hydraulic fluid through a variable orifice, based on the weight and estimated speed of the car(s)?

This is how an arresting gear cable functions on an aircraft carrier. If you will watch an arrested landing on video, you will see the cable being fed out of an opening in the flight deck. That opening routes the cable down to a cable pulley assembly that is connected to the hydraulic system.

We already know the weight of the car from the class (use the heaviest cars) that made tech for the class-to cover all the possibilites) and the speed is pretty well a known, again for each class. For each class of car that runs, someone in the tower could make a simple adjustment to the arresting hydraulic system (potential energy that will be exerted against the system) and away they go, with the net system set up correctly for the type of car, weight and speed expected. They would have to set it up for a scenario where both cars on a run would need the net, to cover all the possibilities.

What do you think?

Jim
Fuelish Habit
Blown Fuel Altered
Classic Nitro Funny Car
www.fuelishhabitracing.com

 

Food for thought

Kudo's to Mark Niver's daughter for telling it like it is!! What ever happened to the "sand" in "sand trap" ?? Pea gravel is great for a runway truck that has lost it brakes and takes an emergency escape ramp. The weight of a truck is so out of line with that of a race car. A truck may weigh 10's of thousands of pounds and will sink in the pea gravel to slow it down and hopefully stop it. A race car weighing between 1500-2500 pounds won't even make a dent in pea gravel. It will just skim along the top. Cars with front tires ranging from 2.5" - 4" in width seem like they would dig into sand a lot easier. What do you think ??

 

I have posted a couple of times on this subject. I generally like to know what is at the end of the track. My observations are that sand especially if it is not fluffed up may not do anything. Of course sand is different across north america. We had a funny car go into pea gravel and it sucked it in about a foot. It made it in about a car length. Didn't hurt anything except needed a major cleaning. Had to pull it out with a winch though because it went in that deep.
Worked in this case.
thanks
Dale

 

Those runaway truck spots are all up hill, at least around here.

 

In my opinion it is not so much the nets that are the problem. It is how they are anchored. I feel they need to anchor the nets to a system of energy absorption devices (not springs) beyond each guardwall. They would be hydraulic in design. I recall an episode of mythbusters where different weapons were fired into a pool of water. Intuitively you would think the most high powered rifle slug would travel the farthest into the water. IT doesn't. the 22 slug went the deepest @ 8 feet. the high speed velocity of the high powered rifle was arrested from what I recall 3 feet. So I'm thinking if you tethered the net to impellers deep within a series of large fluid cylinders or reservoirs. No mater what hit the net depending on its mass and velocity it could be safety stopped at varying distances. I don't think Springs would work because of their fixed spring rate. I think shortening the track to 1000 feet would be a huge disadvantage to the A/Fuel cars and the wrong way to go as we finally have achieved parity. Just my opinion.

Al Smith

 

Catch Nets

I had a friend who had an easy idea to tether the nets. Put a pulley on the existing poles they are connected to. Run a cable from the net to a pile of used tires so when a car hits the net it has to drag the tires. You could even thread the cable through the tires and have three sets of them so as the car pulled the net further it would drag additional sets of tires. Then to reset the nets you just pull the cable back into position with a tractor. Its cheap, it uses existing materials and it lets the net slow the car without being a brick wall. After watching the Mark Niver video it was almost like the net was a wall rather than an energy absorbtion device. Dave Germain

 

That is a very interesting idea Dave. And you could test it with smaller demo derby cars to make sure it mechanically works. You could unhook sets of tires for smaller race vehicles like PSB. Tires have been used in road racing for years.
Great idea I think.
Dale

 

catch net

Here's an article on the tire idea.

http://www.competitionplus.com/inde...berhofer-dont-just-fix-the-cars-fix-the-traps