nitro mix

what percentage could i run if any 541 kb brad fuel heads 44amp msd 1471 littlefield hh 57 over 10" crower pedal clutch 3 speed lenco 189 low strange top loader 430 12.1 comp how could this be done as for timing ,boost ect... the car runs good would like some pop and flames and a little et.any suggestions the car runs 4.0s easy and doesnt hurt parts

thanks jim

 

ok... i'm gonna be the downer here

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME
but you can send me a check for the money i'm gonna save you (this is kinda like when a drug addict speaks to a gym full of school kids)

if the thing runs good work on refining your alcohol tune-up and making the car work better

there are two kinds of nitro motors... 20% or less and 80%+

and in my opinion the 20% or less category only does one thing and that is kill oil... no more 'cycling your oil' or 'getting a weekend out of it'. also no more leaving fuel in the system. just lots of things wrong with doing the small % deal. you get all the maintenance of nitro but little of the actual benefit of the fuels potential (some but very minimal)

flames, 'pop' and most everything you associate with a nitro motor starts to happen around 75% from my experience

a 10-20% smells good... that's about it

and the motors between 20 and 80% are unpredictable animals

ps... i can take cash check or a credit card

 

One eighty nine lo???

 

I have to second altered boy's reply. With 20% you won't get the pop and flames your looking for. Have experience with a 20 - 40 % at 9.5:1 and it hurt a lot of parts. That compression was way to high. If you really want to run nitro cut the compression back to 6:1 and put 85% in it.

 

Run dual mags and put set of plugs in the headers.

Brandon Booher
NHRA TAD #35

 

i guess your tring to be the funny man here

 

i appreciate the advice i was just curious i heard of guys doing it i will stay where im at thought hell if its as easy as some make it sound i would try it the car runs very decent anyway could use a better blower maybe but other than that its pretty good


thanks jim

 

No serious, people have done it. It works and long term is much cheaper than adding any to the tank. Jeff Fowler actually had something designed up at one point so just have a small spark/igniter into the headers. It would operate off a WOT switch, you mash the gas and va-voom!

Brandon Booher
NHRA TAD #35

 

that doesnt interest me besides putting another 44amp mag for that

i may consider building a nitro motor im running a fiat body instead of the funny car now my alky deal runs fine and doesnt hurt parts bookings might be easier to get if it was nitro deal im sure there is a combo out there that doesnt just kill parts like a nostialga aa/fuel altered is what im thinking

 

Interesting topic. I'd like to ask a couple of questions about these two points......

What makes them unpredictable? Is it that the combustion is never quite consistent, or that the tune is a moving target? I would be very curious to hear more, especially for loads around 50%.

What seemed to be the problem with 20-40 and 9.5:1? Detonation? Damaging pistons & rings?

Let's say a person did want to run 50% due to a forced class rule, what do you figure the net gain in power would be and what would be a reasonable static compression ratio to start experimenting with?

Would 50% with less compression give much more than 0% with optimized compression?

I guess I'm asking this question from the context of classes where the typical cubic inch limit is fixed, and blown meth motors will be running against blown motors with up to 50% loads depending upon the choice of the team.


Thanks.

 

On 20% you tune for the alky side, on 80% you tune for the Nitro side, everything in between it is generally unhappy, JMHO

 

At 20% it didn't do much except smell like nitro at 40% it was detonating and burning the heads off in an 1/8 mile.

 

Hard to be in between alcohol and fuel. I know 90% plus wakes 'em up but not with a lot of compression. Now if we could just stop back siding those pistons.......

 

i was looking for a tenth and half lol

mabe nitrous would be easier

 

hey Jim go to this site it is call outlawfuel altereds.com they are out of texas for the most part..alot of smart guy there and they have a form you can chat on..get you a set of fuel pistons and go for it..you only live 1 time..you can run 35 to 40% and have alot of fun...Dave

 

Ive posted about this before, but back in my Top Dragster days (and yes, I had one of the quickest in the Country) Bunker Hill used to have Outlaw Q-8's that were the MOST fun I ever had! Using 15-17% you could sure smell it (couldn't see it, Sorry Jim) but DID pick up a 1/10th in the 1/8th and more torque by the wheelies we experienced! Can't wait till 97% this year!

 

Go over to www.ofaa.net and get on the message board with some of our outlaw altered guys. Your last idea (putting a second combination together to run a higher percentage of nitro) is actually a cheaper way to play than taking your chances with 25-70% in a motor that is set up for alcohol. That is going to kill lots of parts with no real good explanation, and no solid way of preventing it. Either go alky or go nitro, the no-mans land in between is very expensive real estate. Get a baseline number of 6:0 to 1 and work off that. You want more? Put more blower to it. AND more fuel. You're going to think you're drowning it in fuel volume compared to what you've been running. LOTS of fun! And when you get 'er done, bring it to Texas and we'll play!

 

i was there in denton a couple of years doing a match race and watched the outlaw fuel altered run hell of a show

 

a tenth will put me in the high .80 to low .90s in the 1/8 mi is all im looking for

 

There are two ways to tune a motor on nitro:

1. Tune it like methanol where you are looking for plug color and you tune with an AFR in mind. As the percentage gets higher, the AFR changes. It makes a whole bunch more torque over methanol even at only 15-20%. You read plugs just like methanol and parts last a long time. Add toluene to help prevent detonation - it works really well to keep the head gaskets in it. 0-90% loads can be tuned this way just fine. The power realized is proportional to the percentage as is the AFR. As long as a person keeps track of the density altitude and changes the tuneup accordingly, this method is VERY predictable, reliable and extremely consistent. For example, an AFR of 1.6:1 doesn't care too much if the weather changes a little. Supercharged motors using this method have a wider margin for error if they utilize a lower static compression ratio.

2. Tune it like a nitro motor: by VOLUME. The volume has to be right in order to not melt the pistons out or put out the fire. This depends on load, compression, spark, timing and other factors. This method puts over 50% more fuel volume in the motor than the first method. Instead of going rich and falling over, the stuff goes berzerk and "feeds on itself". This method makes unreal torque and power and also regularly melts the plugs out along with other occasional assorted parts. This approach doesn't work well under 80% because the "chain reaction" that the method relies on doesn't really happen when the load is weaker than that.

I never used to believe it (maybe because I'm a mag guy too) but I learned last year that indeed a motor running on method #2 at WFO (stuck throttle) cannot be killed with the mag switch. It keeps eating until all the grub is gone.

Spud
www.fuelinjectionent.com