Enderle barrel valve comparison

I want to compare Enderle's square barrel valve and there super high flow nitro or "K-style".

Approximately how much psi drop do these two styles have? Obviously the K-style is less, but about how much less?

 

I have been told the square is good up to 12-13 gpm

 

here are two set ups both are the same except for the barrel valve. As you can see the k valve gives you more pressure, ( from Spud Millers tune up calculater)


User Input
Engine Displacement 500 CID
Blower Output 436 cu in/rev
Blower Pulley 50 teeth
Engine Pulley 60 teeth
Nitro 0%
Fuel Temperature 65°F
Pump Flow 12.68 GPM @ 4000 pump RPM
Pump Drive Ratio .5:1
Metering Valve Type Enderle K-Style
Barometric Pressure 29.92 in/hg
Temperature 75°F
Relative Humidity 55%

Hat Nozzles Port Nozzles
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.

Nozzle Area
Total Hat Area 0.01570 Sq. In.
Total Port Area 0 Sq. In.

Effective Port Area (due to boost) 0 Sq. In.
Total Effective Nozzle Area 0.01570 Sq. In.

Calculated Results
Air Density 95.52%
Air Density 0.073085 lbs/cu ft
Corrected Altitude 1495 feet
Optimal Air:Fuel Ratio 5.01:1
Nitro by weight 0%
Nitro by volume 0%
Specific Gravity 0.7935 @ 65°F
Fuel Density 6.6220 lbs/gallon
Required Air @ 8000 2422.2 cu ft/min
Air Consumption 177.02 lbs/min
Fuel Consumption 35.300 lbs/min
Fuel Consumption 2118.0 lbs/hour
Required Fuel @ 8000 RPM 5.330 GPM
Pump Flow @ 8000 Engine RPM 12.68 GPM
Pump Output Required by Motor 42.04%<TR

Overdrive 20%
Boost 15.4 psi
Theoretically Optimal Main Jet Size 0.166"
Main Jet Area 0.02165 Sq. In.
System Pressure @ 8000 RPM 171.1 psi
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


User Input
Engine Displacement 500 CID
Blower Output 436 cu in/rev
Blower Pulley 50 teeth
Engine Pulley 60 teeth
Nitro 0%
Fuel Temperature 65°F
Pump Flow 12.68 GPM @ 4000 pump RPM
Pump Drive Ratio .5:1
Metering Valve Type Enderle Cube
Barometric Pressure 29.92 in/hg
Temperature 75°F
Relative Humidity 55%

Hat Nozzles Port Nozzles
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.

Nozzle Area
Total Hat Area 0.01570 Sq. In.
Total Port Area 0 Sq. In.

Effective Port Area (due to boost) 0 Sq. In.
Total Effective Nozzle Area 0.01570 Sq. In.

Calculated Results
Air Density 95.52%
Air Density 0.073085 lbs/cu ft
Corrected Altitude 1495 feet
Optimal Air:Fuel Ratio 5.01:1
Nitro by weight 0%
Nitro by volume 0%
Specific Gravity 0.7935 @ 65°F
Fuel Density 6.6220 lbs/gallon
Required Air @ 8000 2422.2 cu ft/min
Air Consumption 177.02 lbs/min
Fuel Consumption 35.300 lbs/min
Fuel Consumption 2118.0 lbs/hour
Required Fuel @ 8000 RPM 5.330 GPM
Pump Flow @ 8000 Engine RPM 12.68 GPM
Pump Output Required by Motor 42.04%<TR

Overdrive 20%
Boost 15.4 psi
Theoretically Optimal Main Jet Size 0.166"
Main Jet Area 0.02165 Sq. In.
System Pressure @ 8000 RPM 114.0 psi
WARNING: This calculator is to be used as a guide only. You accept all risk for its use! The

User Input
Engine Displacement 500 CID
Blower Output 436 cu in/rev
Blower Pulley 50 teeth
Engine Pulley 60 teeth
Nitro 0%
Fuel Temperature 65°F
Pump Flow 12.68 GPM @ 4000 pump RPM
Pump Drive Ratio .5:1
Metering Valve Type Enderle Cube
Barometric Pressure 29.92 in/hg
Temperature 75°F
Relative Humidity 55%

Hat Nozzles Port Nozzles
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.
.050 x 1 ea. .050 x 1 ea. 0 x 0 ea. 0 x 0 ea.

Nozzle Area
Total Hat Area 0.01570 Sq. In.
Total Port Area 0 Sq. In.

Effective Port Area (due to boost) 0 Sq. In.
Total Effective Nozzle Area 0.01570 Sq. In.

Calculated Results
Air Density 95.52%
Air Density 0.073085 lbs/cu ft
Corrected Altitude 1495 feet
Optimal Air:Fuel Ratio 5.01:1
Nitro by weight 0%
Nitro by volume 0%
Specific Gravity 0.7935 @ 65°F
Fuel Density 6.6220 lbs/gallon
Required Air @ 8000 2422.2 cu ft/min
Air Consumption 177.02 lbs/min
Fuel Consumption 35.300 lbs/min
Fuel Consumption 2118.0 lbs/hour
Required Fuel @ 8000 RPM 5.330 GPM
Pump Flow @ 8000 Engine RPM 12.68 GPM
Pump Output Required by Motor 42.04%<TR

Overdrive 20%
Boost 15.4 psi
Theoretically Optimal Main Jet Size 0.166"
Main Jet Area 0.02165 Sq. In.
System Pressure @ 8000 RPM 114.0 psi

 

Eli

To summarize your example...

171 psi at the inlet of the square BV will give the same amount of GPM to the motor as the K style with only 114 psi

Would you all agree that this sounds like its in the ballpark?

 

Maybe this week I'll get one of my systems back on the flowbench and I will read psi right before the BV and in the line feeding the port distribution block. That would tell me what kind of psi drop is in the BV for my setup.
It won't answer what the K style would be because I don't have one. I figured someone on here already knew this and could get me in the ballpark.

I'm wondering how much more psi will be at my nozzles if I switch to the K style?

 

The calculator on the FIE site that Eli refers to is based on actual data collected here over the last 6 years. I go back and figure the Cv for every system we flow here and the pressure correction factors that the calculator uses are based on reality. Systems vary a little bit on this from one to the next due to different filters, fittings, plumbing arrangements, nozzles, etc. If the nozzles a person is using really flow what they should, I would say the pressure output by the calculator will be within 5% or so for the tuneup it spits out.

That's not to say that the tuneup it delivers will be that close, especially for supercharged apps where many factors (that are not variables in the program) determine fuel requirements. It's a great tool for figuring out and understanding a bunch of different things however.

"For Educational and Entertainment Purposes Only"

Spud
www.fuelinjectionent.com

 

I think you should look at the results again, the k valve has more pressure 171 to the cubes 114.

 

system pressure @ 8.000 rpm,s

 

system pressure @ 8.000 rpm,s the nozzles control the presser, the k valve flows more fuel so if the nozzles are the same size it will have more presser because your trying to push more fuel threw the same nozzle.

 

I assumed "System Pressure @ 8000 RPM" is from inbetween the pump and the BV as opposed to between the BV and nozzles. I've never measured it, but I'm assuming there is more psi before the BV than after it because of psi drop thru the BV.

Nozzle size and psi (at the nozzle orifice) dictate how much GPM go into the motor, I think we would all agree to that. So I don't quite understand how the pills, nozzles and GPM can all be the same if the PSI at the nozzles increased from 114 to 171

Let me ask the question this way...
If I take off my square BV and replace it with the K, what advantage is it to making more power?

I assumed that because there is less psi drop across the BV, the nozzles and return pills could be decreased to maintain the same amount of GPM going into the motor, but now at a higher PSI. I assume this higher PSI/same GPM to equal better atomization and more power.

Comments?

 

This is the question you originally asked, you got the answer, now your tap dancing around the answer and trying to make it meet your predetermined answer. Again, the k gives more pressure than the cube . If you speak Italian I can explain it to you in that language.

 

I totally understand that if I take off my cube and put on the K that I will have more psi at my nozzles.

From reading the data you posted, it showed the nozzle, pill and GPM numbers remained the same, but the PSI increased. I don't understand how thats possible.

I would have thought that someone on here has switched from the cube to the K style and had some info to share on the experience.

 

The cube will have a psi drop across it. I think it starts at around 13 gpm of flow.the psi increases on the pump side. Where the k wont they are designed differently. thats what I have been told. hope it helps Craig

 

my two or three cents: pressure is volume in resistance to flow. So if the k valve flows more volume then it hits the resistance of the nozzles harder = more pressure. The cube valve may have more resistance or less flow so after it there's less pressure. Doesn't a motor that has a better flowing set of heads show less boost all else being equal... right or wrong??

 

I am somewhat surprised this question even came up.
You want the K valve.
Much easier bypass mounting/position.
Larger spool with enough material to make your own idle slot design if desired.
When it's wide open it's a straight shot from the pump to the dist. block whereas the flow has to make at least 4 turns going to and from the cube BV.

I use the K valve on everything, even slow bracket cars. It's just easier to tinker with. I think any pump beyond the 600 needs the K valve.

Dave Koehler
http://www.koehlerinjection.com

 

Mama Mia, thats a spicy k-valve. What lucky2wd and dave koehler said

 

I ask the question because I have 3 motors, so to change them it will be about $800 total. If the $800 gives me some small amount of psi increase at the nozzles than I am going to spend my $800 on something that will have a bigger return.

This would be different if I didn't have the cubes already or if I was having some problem with them.

 

3 motors. Daaang. I can only dream about owning 2

Well, if you are looking for a magic HP bullet, this ain't it.